Someone's convicted as a pedophile. Would you ever take your family to their island? Absolutely not. Okay. Y'all taking this issue that real victims have gone through and it's almost like politicizing it for personal political agenda. But certainly you don't think Thomas Massie and I have done that, right? We always had the survival to a certain degree. Where was this energy when he first came in? Who released the Epstein files? Was it Joe Biden? Was it President Trump?

Well, he did it cuz Massie and I forced his hand with the So why didn't you force Joe Biden's hand? Donald Trump has done more to expose pet files than Joe Biden ever did. On a 1 to 10, how much do you trust me? You released the files, so I'm going to give you like a six or a seven. That's not bad. Yeah. No, that's pretty good. Yeah. Uh Massie up like an eight or a nine. How did Massie get a higher score than me? I Millions of Epstein files have been released. The American people are demanding accountability and justice for the victims. I'm John Regalado from Jubilee Media. This is Surrounded.

Everyday Americans from both sides of the political aisle are here to discuss the Epstein Files, our two-tier justice system, and what proper accountability looks like. Today, we're in Washington DC with the co-author of the Epstein Files Transparency Act, Representative Roana. Welcome to the show. Thanks. Thanks for having me. You ready to get into these discussions? I'm excited. Are you all ready? All right, let's get into it.

I'm Congressman Roana. I represent Silicon Valley. I'm the co-author with Thomas Massie of the Epstein Transparency Act that forced the release of 3 million files. I believe we need to stand for the working class, not the Epstein class. Today, I'm surrounded by 20 Americans to discuss the Epstein files. My first surrounded claim is that the treatment of the Epstein class shows that there are two tiers of justice in America. If you would like to debate this claim, please get to the chair in three, two, one. Hey, Christian. Mr. Congressman, I like the boots.

Yeah. Thank you. Where did you get those? Got those at in uh Dallas. Nice. Yeah. And thank you for being here. Thank you. Uh Mr. Congressman, when were you elected in Congress? 2016 was started in 2017. And when did the Epstein stuff first come out? Was that 2008 or when was that? Well, he was convicted in 2008. 2008. So, you started when President Trump was in office the first time. Yeah. And you served while Joe Biden uh was in office. He's from my home state in Delaware. Not a fan of him. I voted for President Trump. Uh probably the first

time I ever voted this past year. Really? Yeah. First time I ever voted. What made you vote for him? Uh he's America first and that's what we need. What about all the 200 billion he's spending? Let's just get back to Epstein Files. Let's get back to Epstein files. So you served while Joe Biden was in office.

What did you do to release the Epstein files while he was in office? In 2019. No, while Joe Biden was in office. No, let me explain. In 2019, we called for the release of those files. Elijah and I in the oversight committee, we called for an investigation. Now, when Joe Biden came into uh power, uh I do believe it we should have released the files that I'm not defending the previous administrations because I've gotten to know these survivors and I believe that the files should have been released years ago. When we started this, we

actually thought Trump would support us. Mar, think about it. The coalition I built with Margie Taylor Green and Lauren Boowbert and Nancy Mace and Thomas Massie and Marjorie said, "Donald Trump, you could be a hero. You could be the president who releases these files and meets with the survivors." I was surprised and disappointed that President Trump fought it. I was surprised that Let me just stop you there. Disappointed. Who released the Epstein files? Was it Joe Biden? Was it President Trump? Well, he did it because Bassie and I forced his head with the So, why didn't you force Joe Biden's hand?

Well, we should have. We I'm I'm not Why didn't you? Well, because at that point, uh, there was a process, but we should have. I got to know the survivors in 2025. I got to know them personally. Had I gotten to know them earlier, I would have, and I wish someone had. Did Merrick Garland protect the Epstein class? He didn't protect Here's what the problem was. It needed a law of Congress. The Justice Department couldn't release things because of their policy until Congress passed a law.

Congress had to say, "You can override the privacy considerations and you can release it." So, yeah. Should we have tried to pass this law in the Biden administration or first Trump administration? Yes. But let me ask you this. Now that we've passed the law, why don't you think they should just release the rest of the 3 million files and Trump fine, he can take credit for it and try to get justice for the survivors. Why aren't they doing that? I guess that's my question. And how many files have been released so far? Three million. They haven't released half of them by their own admission. And some of those files that they haven't released, those are the ones where the

survivors are naming the rich and powerful men who raped them or abused them. So my question to you is do you think that the rich and powerful people who have been legitimate accusations of rape or being pedophiles or giving money to Epstein in illegal ways, do think they should Donald Trump has done more to expose pedophiles than Joe Biden ever did? No, but put aside that the point. Yes, he's complied half complied with the law. Do you think they should investigate and prosecute them? And do you think they should release the other half of the files?

They should investigate everyone including Democrat donors. But yeah, they should all but why aren't they doing they're not even investigating the Democratic donors? There are people investigate all of them. Well, so you agree they should do that. I've been calling, you know, some of these people are people who donated. Steve Tish donated to Democrats. I were any of your donors on the list? Yes. Yeah. I'm for investigating.

Have you spoken with them about the Epstein files? I have not. You have not. What's holding you back from that? Well, I've Are they giving you money still? Uh, I don't think so. No one who's on No, but I have said that if there are donors of mine who are on the list, that doesn't matter. They should still come before the oversight committee. There should still be investigations. This has always been bipartisan. They're probably Are you going to bring Merrick Garland in to testify before the oversight committee?

Yeah, it's I'd support that. I mean, if I would Yeah. to understand why the files were not released. But now, would you support the idea that Pam Bondi should actually open up investigations? She's already been subpoenaed. she's going to appear before that she should start opening up investigations against some of these men. I mean there's there's a survivor told me she was raped at 17. The person's in the files. No investigations being open. There's no investigation open about Leon Black, about Les Waxner. Why not?

I think we got a pause there. You've been voted out by the majority. Good to see you. If you would like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one. How you doing? Hi Eron. Good to see you. Nice to meet you. I appreciate your bipartisan work. I appreciate everything you've done to expose what you've exposed so far. Um I guess could you define the two tiers that you're speaking about so that we all have a better definition of what you're where you're coming from. So if you get a parking ticket, you get a lot of parking tickets, you know, your car will get booted or if you do

something uh wrong, the cops will be at your house and you'll get arrested. In this case, people who had wealth and power, extreme wealth, basically thought that they could get away with doing things that you or I or most people in America can't. In the worst case, they were uh raping underage girls on uh less egregious matter. They were showing up to parties where 13, 14, 15 year olds were being paraded naked, or they were hanging out with Epstein, a pedophile, knowing that he was raping underage girls and no police were ever coming and asking them questions. That's what I mean about two tiers of justice, that the wealthy and powerful use their wealth and power and connections to

avoid justice that you and I have to face. So, I would argue that means that there's one tier of justice and it's just for the have nots, right? So my question to you is it seems that most of Congress, most of our elected officials, are supported by a lot of these people who are in that other class of people. You're right. So how do we have faith in our legislature to work on behalf of us, the people, when we know that their pockets are being lined by the same people that are on these islands, that are in these files, that are in these back rooms at these secret parties, that these secret events, these terrible, horrible, nasty, disgusting things that are happening.

and the most prolific child trafficker of our lifetime. They're friends with him. You've hit the heart of what's wrong with our democracy. Are we going to be for the working class or are we going to be for the Epstein class? And this is why I believe those files weren't exposed for so many decades because both parties had donors in them because rich and powerful people uh knew politicians on both sides and it was in everyone's interest to stay quiet. But I believe prosecuting and holding the elite accountable, taking risks like Massie and I have. The billionaires don't like us. A lot of the people in this Epstein class don't like us. They're funding primary challenges against us. But we

need to stand up to them and then we need to say no to pack money, no to super PAC money. Get the money out of politics. Would you agree that there are politicians who are a part of that Epstein class? Yes, of course. And on all sides of the aisle. So, are you planning on subpoenaing or bringing that up to have anybody else who was mentioned in the files to come in? For example, somebody like u you know, President Obama, whose chief legal counsel was named in the files, Katherine Rumler.

Well, Rumler should come in and she should be subpoenaed. I mean, I don't believe there's any evidence uh genuinely of President Obama, I'm not saying there is being in any but Rumler, Cath Kathy Rumler, she should come in and have to answer and subpoena and she was in the Obama administration. So this is this has helped hurt Democrats, right? Steve Tish a Democrat. Larry Summers a Democrat. Bill Gates a Democrat. Mson in Britain. He was a liberal guy. Absolutely. And but my thought is anybody who's associating with these people who are friendly with Epstein. No, Epste's a scumbag. He's been documented as a scumbag since the

'9s. Right. So Obama appointed, for example, I'm just using President Obama because he's the only president of the last three presidents that hasn't been mentioned. Three or four presidents. Uh he's probably been the most ethical of Well, that's up for debate for whatever reason it may be. Um I'm a registered independent, right? So I don't trust any No offense to you. I don't trust really any politician. On a 1 to 10, how much do you trust me right now? Sitting in front of you, you released the files, so I'm going to give you like a six or a seven. That's not bad.

Yeah. No, that's pretty good. Yeah. Uh Massie up like an eight or a nine. Well, how did Massie get a higher score THAN ME? I He's going against party lines. I went against some party lines. You did, but he's going against Trump and the Trump base as a result, right? a very dangerous fly. Where do you put the trust of Obama and Trump? Uh I don't trust any president because I think they all have external What about Bernie Sanders? Where do you put a trust?

I think Bernie is consistent, but I don't trust him necessarily for the American people. No. Um and I can respect consistency, but I'm actually going to step away and let somebody else come up and talk. I just wanted to hear that question. I appreciate it. Thank you. Doing my job for me. Hi. Hi, Rea. Nice to meet you. And I've been frustrated that it's uh it seems like everyone who is on the right that's coming here wants to move forward as in Trump is exonerated. And I feel

like for a lot of voters, Trump was not exonerated in 2016 when the audio of him saying, "I grab women by the pussy." Right? Like when he said that, for a lot of people, that was immediately this person is a predator. Yet after all that, people still voted for him for three elections. I do think that considering the people he was running against, the Democrats aren't a real opposition to the Republican party, that's a problem I have with the Democrats. And my counter claim to it's the two-tier justice. I think this is a gender issue. I think this is about

violence and sexual violence. And it's the fact that we're kind of even in this conversation of elites, we're kind of treating it as in women in the working class or women of color aren't facing violence outside of the elite class, right? women are facing violence constantly and I think the problem also is that the burden of proof is always on the victims and so my issue is that this is a problem with sexual violence and gendered violence and the fact that we keep trying to go around it the fact that we want to have good men fight bad men it's like we need to center female voices survivor voices yeah um to the conversation it's a very thoughtful point and I

actually would concede that it is not just a class issue of wealth and power. It is also a gender issue of sexual violence that can transcend class. And not everyone who was a survivor was in the working class. There was though a systematic effort to target people who were working class or who didn't have fathers uh and an exploitiveness of people who are rich and powerful using their wealth to shield themselves from justice. But I think it is both a class issue and a gender issue. And when I go in the airports and someone stops me, the biggest thing they'll say is they'll take a one minute to tell me about their story of how they were sexually assaulted or sexually abused. And I am

just shocked and saddened at how common and prevalent abuse and sexual assault is in this country. How we have sort of uh hidden it in a box. We've pushed it aside. And one of the hopes of that I have is this war can have a serious conversation about it. And the real heroes in this story are the survivors that we have tried to make their voices front and center. I fully agree with that. My problem is that when we frame this as a structure of getting justice, the transparency act is very important. I'm I'm very happy that you and Congressman Massie kind of started the coalition with it. The issue

is that we are seeing the transparency. The files are out there. there's egregious stuff being discussed and there are still people wanting to kind of move the conversation away and have like partisan fights and that aside I think the problem is there's a 2% conviction rate of sexual violence predators. So it's like the transparency act almost feels like trauma porn because Pam Bondi or Donald Trump's Department of Justice doesn't even care about hiding the survivors names, right? So, we are kind of forcing them to relive the worst nightmare, the worst moments of their lives. And we're saying, you know what, um, the benefit of the doubt still falls on the person

who's in the files, who knew who Epstein was, who still communicated with him after he was convicted, and we don't have to, you know, try them. We're not going to have them go through justice. And I feel like that falls short for me. Transparency is important, but if there's no justice or if there's no accountability that we're seeking at the end that we're just trying to point blames of like who was with Epstein, we're not really getting the survivors. I couldn't agree with you more, Renuka. And uh the survivors, of course, the survivors do believe that the release of the files was a huge thing because they've been fighting for that. But they call me, they text me, and they say,

"Look, their names in the files of people who raped me when I was 17, and why aren't we investigating them? Why aren't we prosecuting them?" And I forward those names to Pam Bondi and the Deputy Attorney General. There needs to be justice. And if there's not justice in this administration, the next president needs to make this a priority because every person who actually engaged in the rape of these girls or who covered up uh for that rape needs to face accountability. And I totally agree with you and it's it's what angers me the most is knowing some of the people in those files who are not facing uh prosecution. And by the way, they're facing prosecution in other countries in

Britain, in Norway, in France. I mean, I have to say like Okay, we have to pause there. You've been voted out by the majority. Thank you. Hi, Heidi. Nice to meet you. It's an honor to be here for me. Um, I'm 19 years old. I was born in 2007. And from my understand, right? What I was going to say was Epstein was first taken into custody in Florida in 2006. That's before I was even born. Um, and you said to the previous speaker that, you know, you've been in Congress for almost 10 years, right? So, my question is, and I'm leaning pretty Republican here, right?

Where were you like throughout my lifetime, you know, like this issue has been here, we know he was the bad guy from a long time ago. Absolutely. Where were you before? Well, we've uh in 2019 in the oversight committee spoke out about this, but you know, I've been honest that I didn't know these survivors personally. I hadn't paid attention as much to Julie Brown's reporting. Now, it's become emotional for me because I've gotten to know them. I've seen them break down in tears. I've seen how horrible it is. I know that there are so many men who abuse them uh and that there is this group of people

that I call the Epstein class that has gotten away with things and it's really ugly and it's a problem in our country because we aren't going to have trust unless we have accountability. If you can get away with raping young girls, what can't you get away with? So, I do think I wish I had done this in my first year of Congress, but it's a collective failure of our country. This is not about Trump or Biden. This is about how in America are rich and powerful people getting away with raping underage girls or showing up at parties with underage girls paraded naked. It is awful.

Okay, I see. And I agree with you. I feel like in America right now, there's not a lot of issues that 90% of Americans agree on. I think Epstein files is definitely one of them. Um, but we didn't hear about this under the Biden administration. And what I think is right now this sudden Democrat outburst on the Epstein files. I think it's a lot about timing. It's not really about justice. Um because actually Epstein was arrested both times in 2006 and then in 2019 I believe under Republican administrations under Bush and under Trump. But certainly you agree that those arrests they he wasn't prosecuted in the way he should have, right? I mean he was

given a light sentence and that's part of what we need to investigate. But you know the interesting thing here is that some of the loudest voices about the Epstein show have been Republicans. Not just Thomas Massie, Nancy Mace, Marjorie Telerine, Lauren Boowbert, Jim Comr believes that there needs to be far more uh released. I mean, that's why we have Pam Bondi coming. And I just think that this should be an issue that unites the country, that there can't be two tiers of justice. You can't have rich and powerful people playing by one set of rules, showing up at this Epstein island, raping underage girls, or knowing about it, and still hanging out with a convicted pedophile. like that

that to me should be the one thing we can bring this country together, right? And actually about that point, um what do you think about Bill Clinton? Because you know, I'm a Gen Z. I'm a teenager. I go on Instagram and recently there was a really viral video where Bill Clinton, he was in the congressional testimony and he was flipping through like the Epstein files and he was very fondly laughing at some of the pictures which weren't funny because he was in bathtubs with really young girls. And I just want to ask you like what do you think we should do with Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton?

Well, I view the two separately. I mean, Hillary Clinton had nothing to do with Epstein with I disagree because she was she's a great friend of Maxwell. She invited Maxwell to her daughter's wedding. Well, my understanding of the facts on that is that uh Maxwell came as a guest of someone who was invited to the wedding. But the point is that both she was also a guest in 2013 at Bill uh at Clinton's um foundation I believe. But that's why I voted to make sure that both of them were subpoenaed. They had to answer questions. They sat there and answered questions from for seven hour six hours. Now, do you think it's fair that Donald Trump should do the

same thing? He should answer the questions too, right? Just like the Clintons did. I personally I don't believe Donald Trump is as guilty as Bill Clinton because Bill Clinton in this case he was on Bill Clinton was 24 times on Epstein's plane and also for 17 times he was at the White House. But Clinton never had contact with Epstein factually after Epstein was convicted. Donald Trump himself has said that there was contact. Uh do you think that Donald Trump should at least have to testify and answer questions? And he's president and he's not releasing the files. And I agree with that. Um there should be accountability, I think, on both sides of the aisle. It's not a partisan

issue. I'm for I was for the Clintons testifying. I'm for Trump testifying. I'm for the people who are uh Democratic donors having accountability, Republican donors having accountability. When Massie and I did this, this is why it was bipartisan. We didn't think about let's protect the Democrats, let's protect uh people on our side. We said there's a group of people who have exploited the law. They need to be held accountable. And that's I think what the American people want. They know there's a rotten system where rich and powerful people uh get away with things and they're tired of it. My hope is people like you will say, "Look, let's just have accountability across the

political spectrum. Take the name the party out of it." I agree. I think it's not a Republican issue. It's not like a battle between Republicans, Democrats, right or left. I think it's more an issue between the elite class and the working class, between the powerful and the vulnerable. So, I think everyone should be held accountable, but it's just personally looking at those videos of Bill Clinton, I was pretty hesitant. I was like, "Wow." Okay, we got to pause there. We're out of time for this claim. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Are most of the folks here from DC or all over? That's all over, sir. Oh, that's where I was born, right? Yeah. I grew up in Bucks County. Yeah, Bucks County. What high school? Council Rock. That's a good group here. My next surrounded claim is that Pam Bondi's Justice Department has not complied with the law in releasing the Epstein files. If you would like to be the first person to debate this claim, get to the chair in three, two, one.

Hi, Zach. How are you? Good to see you. You're quick. Yeah. Um, I think the claim today is quite polite, to be honest. Um, it's not just been a refusal to obey the law. It's been pretty flagrant. The law you passed said that all the files had to be released by December 19th. Did not happen. The law said you couldn't redact for political reasons. We had the redactions of Donald Trump's name. It also said the victims had to be protected. Yeah. And the names and even faces of many victims were released. They redacted in black ink names of the perpetrators.

They released in 4K. the faces and names of victims. So, I wanted to ask um what you going to do about that. Zach, you're absolutely right. And thanks for pointing out that I've been fair about it. I have been polite as have Massie. I mean, we've given the Department of Justice every benefit of the doubt. Why? Because my fight is not with Pam Bondi or Blanch. My fight is with the Epstein class, with these men who raped these girls and who went to the island and covered it up. So, we have three problems right now. First, they have overly redacted files. Three

million files where these survivors have given information to the FBI, named the names, and they're not coming out. What are we going to do about that? We're going to go to court. We're going to have Pam Bondi come for a deposition, ask her under oath. We're going to continue to put pressure in a bipartisan way to force the release like we've gotten the three million files. The second problem, as you pointed out, is that they have given some of the victim's names out there. They've compromised the victim's identity and for that we've got to put them in touch with the victim's lawyers. They've refused to meet. But the final things, Zach, is there's been no investigation

or prosecution. I mean, other countries, they're prosecuting these people who committed horrible acts. We need investigations and prosecutions here. Let me ask you, what do you think we should be doing? Well, I mean, I would like to see some more accountability, frankly. You know, you're the article one branch of the Constitution, right? And you know, I think everyone here will have different views on these issues, but I think there is a common thread that we all want justice. I know you're talking about depositions. I know you're talking about um other things that Congress can do.

But I think especially for young people who have grown up over the last decade, seeing the worst people get away with the worst things. Um seeing it never be easier to be a bad person in America. I was wondering if you had any sort of reassurance that maybe if not now but in a year or two that there'll be some sort of justice in America for all the crimes that have been committed, especially um by the Trump administration and by Attorney General Pam Bondi who has been really the cover up um for the crime as opposed to, you know, being the attorney general for justice. You're absolutely right. We need to be done with elite impunity. I mean, bad people have gotten away with breaking the law

and facing no consequences. They caused the Great Recession. They sent us to war in Iraq. They're doing terrible things. We need accountability. Uh and so I believe we will have prosecutions and investigations. It may take a new president, but we eventually will get there. But what Massie and I are going to do until then is fight with everything we have to make sure the rest of the files get released to make sure we're calling people under oath and that they're testifying and to push for investigations and prosecutions about the men who raped these girls or who

covered up for that rape. Pause there. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat. Thank you. If you would like to be the next debater, please get to the chair in three, two, one. Take that job. You're better dressed than me. Is that allowed? Oh, well, I wouldn't say better dressed than you. Um, first of all, I want to thank you for passing the Epstein Files Transparency Act. That is one of the

single the Epstein files getting released is one of the single greatest acts of transparency probably in the history of the United States government. That being said, I want to make a statement and then I want to ask you a question, please. Within the confines of the law, Pam Bondi and the government did not they didn't honor the deadline. That's indisputable. And I'm a Trump voter, by the way. that's indisputable that it wasn't followed. However, the way that the law was written allowed for it allowed for redactions based around whether or not something was covered by legal privilege, whether or not something was under active investigation. And that to me is very

disturbing. The Epstein case deals with wealthy elitists that have engaged in acts of horren horrendous acts, pedophilia. Why should they be protected by legal privilege? Why was the law written uh without any express penalty for the failure of the DOJ and the executive branch uh to meet that deadline? There was no direct penalty listed in the law that you wrote. Well, you asked two very good questions. Uh first of all, it does not protect privilege. They actually are misinterpreting the law. They have to give us all of the deliberations of why they made a decision not to charge

Epstein with the full counts, why they didn't charge the co-conspirators. the law was actually explicit in saying privilege uh is not a grounds to conceal things. Secondly, uh they have to give us all the 302 forms. What are the 302 forms? Those are the survivors telling the FBI agents who are the men who raped them or abused them. They aren't doing that. They're not complying with the law. But you're right, it's an obstruction of justice. That's what they can be charged with and that's what they have violated in the law. But if I had to do it over again and Massie and I had to do it over again, we would have probably added a private cause of action as well. That doesn't excuse them, they

still can be prosecuted for obstruction of justice. But as we were doing this, one of the things we probably should have added is a private cause action. So I don't know if you've gone to law school or you should go to law school, but you're you're very astute to point out that private cause action should have been in there. It definitely should have been. But there's something else that you mentioned that the Britain and the UAK are punishing their elitists that have engaged in this. But all I know of is that Prince Andrew suffered a civil

penalty. He didn't suffer anything criminal. And President John Kennedy said many years ago that the very word secrecy is repugnant in a free and an open society. Uh and that we're opposed around the world to secret proceedings and to secret societies in general. And many of these horrendous acts are committed by people that have a history of dealing not only with occultism, Satanism. There's evidence of the files of some of the most horrendous acts possible. Why was this not why were the Epstein files not pushed for release during a Democratic administration?

Well, it was started in under actually George W. Bush. These women have been abandoned and they haven't had justice. 1996 is when there was a complaint to the FBI to stop Epstein and nothing happened. So, this is not just a Trump issue. I've been very clear. These women have been denied justice by the Epstein class for decades. They have been rich and powerful people who've used their power connections. And I'll I'll answer your question to uh pro to prevent prosecution. But yes, these files should have been released during the Biden administration. But that doesn't mean

that now that Massie and I passed the law, that we actually got something done that we can't get justice today. Well, I think that the way to get justice today would be cut taking the steps that you're doing. But I think that the law should have been more tightly written to eliminate the possibility because this is the thing. You've seen the you stated I think on I saw you on C-SPAN a couple days ago. You stated you got a chance to see the full unredacted file. No, that's the problem. I didn't. The problem is that the Trump administration ordered the redaction of these files. March, they said to redact all of them. If anything with survivors had talked to

the FBI agents, we didn't see those files. When we went into justice, Massie and I and others, they already had been redacted. So what you're saying now is that members of the US government that should have the members of Congress that should have some of the highest classification access on this planet, you're telling me that you can't even see the full unredacted files? No. And let me ask you this. As a Trump voter, would you be uh for having those files be unredacted?

Let me tell you something. I'll tell you this. If they should have always I trust the American people enough as someone that's going to run for Congress in a couple years and possibly run for president um in 15. So don't run against me. Move to my district. Well, well, you know, I'm in Atlanta, so I'm safe. I think that what should have happened, I trust the American people without question to see the unredacted horrors of what was going on because I think that the criminals, the sick offense that participated in these acts should all be exposed.

Do you agree with me that the March file should be Oh, they should have absolutely. And if Trump, and I've always said this, if President Trump is guilty, which I don't believe he is because he was the first one to we know that he ratted on not ratted, but he told on Epstein to the 2006 200. This is but this isn't about Trump. This No, no. What I'm saying is that any official, any politician, any person, including the president of the United States, if he's guilty of committing sexual acts with minor, should be thrown in jail. Let me ask you one thing, though. You voted for Trump. Does this give you concern the way they've handled this about Trump? And why did you vote for

Not about I voted for Trump because he was a better pick than Kla Harris. I voted for Trump because he leaned more towards Christianity and Kla Harris didn't. And so, but you agree that the work Massie and I are doing on transparency and standing up for these girls, this that's what Christian values standing up against rape and abuse. Absolutely. No, again, but we have to Trump did tell on Epstein to the FBI. So, we can't we don't we can't come at him in that sense. But it's what you're doing is fantastic and I applaud you for it. It's one of the, as I said when I

sat down, it's one of the greatest acts of transparency that we've seen in the history of the United States. But again, we are still to quote John Kennedy. I'm going to, you know, I see the flags coming so I'm going to try to make this quick. Uh to quote President Kennedy, we are still opposed around the world by a monolithic and a ruthless conspiracy whose dissenters are silenced and not praised, whose mistakes are buried and not headlined. No expenditure is

questioned and no secret is revealed. And I believe that I trust the American people. I trust the entire population of this country without question to see the horrors of what has been allowed to go on within the halls of our government so that we can do what needs to be done and reform it from the inside out of this. Well, we need your pause there. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat, sir. Appreciate you. All right, Andrew. Nice to meet you. I don't disagree with you at all that Bondi and her DOJ are violating the Epstein Files Transparency Act.

I would say people were supposed to debate. I don't disagree with the actual claim. She is The problem is there is nothing to disagree there. She just is violating it. However, I think 90% of the responsibility is on her. It's important. She should be punished for it. There's a section of the responsibility that goes to the actual language of the bill and then by default you as the writer. You mentioned that if you could do it again, you would put some sort of private cause of action into the bill so the DOJ could be sued uh to try to get the files released in that manner. Why didn't you would be the question. So, first of all, the there is uh legal standing, right? We could uh have

obstruction of justice brought against them. That is a cause of action. The judge Angelmire in the Southern District of New York has invited the survivors to sue because they aren't complying with the Epstein Transparency Act. But it was a herculean task to get uh this through. Massie and I defied the odds. There've only been five discharge petitions ever passed in the history of recent Congress. We had to go against the speaker. We had to go against Donald Trump. We had to go against the senators. We had to go against people initially in our own parties. And so what we were trying to do is pass something that could get majority support. And if we had made it uh even

tougher, it would have been hard to get the votes we did. Now, I don't think Donald Trump still knows that he signed a Democrat's bill. He thinks maybe it's Massy's bill. Uh but, you know, it was a very, very hard thing. If we had uh more uh time and if we were able to get a broader coalition, we could do that. And some people are talking about can we do a second act to the Epstein Transparency Act, but it was the best we could get through in Congress at the time. So, is that to say that yourself and Thomas Massie considered putting a private cause of action into the bill and you chose not to for the sake of having a better chance of getting more votes?

We did. We looked at other enforcement mechanisms and you know, there was also a rush to do it. So, if we started out with saying, "Oh, we're going to sue them and we're going to sue the administration." It would have been very hard for me to get some of the Republicans on board. Sure. My I guess my question would be were you actually told by Republicans in Congress that they wouldn't vote for your bill if you put some sort of cause of action or criminal penalty into the bill and that's why you made the decision or did you just do it on because you thought that's how it we had conversations with some of the other people Republicans and they

thought that if it looked like it was going to be something suing the administration or going after the administration or partisan it would be very hard to hold the coalition. If we had lost one vote on the discharge petition, the thing would not I feel you could of course always fall back on obstruction of justice if you want some sort of punishment for not following a law like this. My fear then is that you just have more elements you like you have to deal then with the elements of obstruction. It's not as simple as if you just put a criminal penalty into your bill or even if you wanted to go the civil route, yeah, put a cause of action in there so that

people can sue. And then my biggest concern and why you did mention that yes, Judge Angelmire, I've read his writings on this. Are you a lawyer? Uh no I'm not. One day um Oh, good for you. I've read his writings on this and it was he yes he did invite the survivors to sue that's great I think they should and I think that makes sense and they should be able to then you have to have the whole fight over who has standing to sue under if you just put it in the bill you don't have to have that fight you don't have to go through months and months of litigation all and the issue and I think this is

unlikely but there is always that looming threat of you know conservative majority supreme court stepping in and shutting it all down. you don't have to deal with that if you just at least at least in the bill uh specify who has standing to bring it rather than rely on hopefully a judge agrees that this person should have standing to bring this you know I think in terms of the substance you're absolutely right and I'm actually there conversations about can we amend or supplement the bill to but even that you know if it was that easy you would have the votes but the challenge is there are a lot of people who don't want that okay pause there you've been voted out by the majority

please return thanks All right, Marian. Hi. Thank you. Nice to meet you. Great to meet you. Oh my goodness. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for being here. Finally, they called a woman. There was like three men in a row. I know. Even though like I'm a conservative, so I'm actually fine with that. So, let's just start there.

Okay. So, I um I am a Trump supporter. I also agree that Pam Bondi did not do what the bill said that she should do. Right. My question to you is at what point do we consider the ramifications of the names that are on this list? For instance, I did a very viral video. I went through the files that named Trump. Everyone wanted Trump to be guilty. So, I went through the files, right? The vast majority of them were a bunch of crap, right? Oh, Trump is buying whatever Trump was, you know, a random Wikipedia page with Trump's name.

However, just because the name existed in the files, Democrats ran with it, right? I also looked at the FBI call logs. Okay, so that was the big one, the big, you know, you guys know it. It had a big yellow highlighted. Everything is highlighted. all of these victims that called the FBI and no one looked deeper to see that particular file specifically said that these individual calls had been deemed unreliable for various reasons. Okay. So my question is sorry you're doing great. What I'm just so nervous you're doing great. But what is the space that should be left right by the DOJ to protect people who are in these files but are not guilty? Because we do not have a valid,

you know, reason to assume just because Epstein named someone that means that they're automatically guilty. You're absolutely right. I mean, this shouldn't be a witch hunt. And there are a lot of people in those files who are totally innocent, who may be mentioned because they were in a news story or maybe mentioned uh because uh someone was talking about them in an email. And I do not want this to be in any way like a McCarthy hunt that just because you're in the Epstein files, you're guilty. On the other hand, and you would probably acknowledge this, there are a lot of

rich and powerful people in those files who showed up on Epstein's Island who raped or abused these girls who had girls traffic to them and they thought they were above the law. And I'm concerned, why are those people not being investigated and prosecuted? So, we need to be going after the Epstein class. We don't need to go after every single person. And by the way, Massie and I never made this about Trump. Now, there is an allegation about one person, one woman who claims that she was uh abused or raped by President Trump when she was 13. I don't know if that's true or not. What I do believe is that the files in that case should come out. And I hear what you're saying. The

question I would ask you is how much proof should we ask for, right? What is the burden of proof on the people that are seeking justice to demand that these names be released? Because the moment that a name is in those files, these people have to deal with that in their real lives, right? We're talking about people walking around with their children that now have to deal with people attacking them online, attacking them in public, saying that they're pedophiles. These people might have just known Epstein. They might have just, you know, sold them a house for all you know, right? At what point are you guys comfortable on the left comfortable saying, you know what, we

need more time to guarantee to go through these files personally and guarantee that we're only releasing names of people that are guilty because I'm super uncomfortable with the idea of releasing any name and starting, as you called it, a witch hunt when there is no reason to attack people who are innocent. Well, usually the Department of Justice, as you know, doesn't release files, right? because they don't want people who are innocent to be caught up unless there are charges filed. The problem here is that there were women uh who were raped as young girls by Epstein and other men and they called the police and nothing happened. They called the FBI, nothing happened. And it's been decades

that they've been denied justice. So there was a barriage of justice. Not to cut you off, but would you also agree that there are a lot of files that make claims of rape that did not happen? because I went through a lot of these files and a lot of them were unsubstantiated claims and I'm not claiming that nothing happened on the island. It's a horrible place. But you do believe, let me ask you this. Do you do believe that more than Epstein and Maxwell were involved in raping and abusing these? Of course. But because of the horrendous nature of these crimes, I think it is irresponsible for us to release every

single name that's ever been, you know, associated with Epstein and let the left make that a claim to guilt. It is not fair to speak for the broader like what if your name is on the list, but actually Massie and me are in the FC should be assumed that you're guilty just because you're on that list. But no one is but I don't I think the American people are fair. I don't think they think that Massie or I were on the island. Just because someone's in the Epstein files doesn't mean that they're guilty. Just because someone that your party does not do that, right?

You're aware that your party came out and the moment that these files dropped, they literally just searched Trump's name, they posted in there over 5,000 times and they let the left go crazy with that information. And I had to go and do this research for myself and post a video to correct this. But let me ask you this about because you've uh supported President Trump. I'd be curious why you did and I'd be curious if the way they've handled all of this and not releasing it has made you lose any confidence in the administration. Absolutely not. One, President Trump is probably one of the best presidents we've ever had. I thoroughly enjoy everything that he's doing. I have no

problems with anything that he's doing. I don't care if anyone is mad about that. Also, in regards to these files, again, if you're going to be a realist and you're going to be fair, I think that it is unreasonable to ask them to release all of the files. As you mentioned, this doesn't typically happen in an active investigation, right? This doesn't typically happen in general when it comes to evidence for such. But don't you think they now have to follow the law and open up at least some investigations against these men? I agree. But I think we should have the names that need to be investigated. I'll give you two and uh Leon Black. There are credible allegations that they engaged in

horrible things. Should there credible are there credible allegations against Trump? Because again, this came out. That was the entire discussion on the left. Why not have Pam Bondi or others open up investigations against some of these other men? We got to stop there. We're out of time. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate it. My next surrounded claim is that Howard Letic, Trump's commerce secretary, should resign.

All right. If you would like to debate this claim, please get to the chair in three, two, one. Antoine, how you doing, sir? Did you bring me a hat? I could get you one. You got to come back to North Carolina with me. That's where they at. Well, good to see you. Good to see you, too. Look, we appreciate uh you being here. I got to go back to the first claim, though, just really quick. Okay.

Um I would imagine if anyone in this room is believe in criminal justice, it's me. I'm a 16-year law enforcement veteran. Thank you for your time. So, we appreciate what you're doing. However, I believe that Pam Bundy is doing a good job. And I also believe that she is um putting out the files as quick as she can with over 500 employees. I think that's what's working on this FBI going through the redacted files. Now, let me ask you, Anton, cuz you do you think she should open up investigations against some of these men who either gave tons of money to Epstein in allegedly illegal ways or who were allegedly on the island raping underage

girls? I mean, don't you think there should be some investigations and prosecutions? I absolutely do believe that. And you said it earlier, Lex Wexner and Leon Black. We have to start there. Those two, we're on the same page. Absolutely. Unfortunately, I watched that 4-hour deposition with Lex Wexner. He funded the Epstein's uh exploitation of women. Yeah. To be power of attorney and have all access to this money. To be careful. So, in an issue like this, even though you're a Trump supporter, this crosses the aisle for you, right? I mean, you agree with what

Massie and I are doing and going after these type of people. criminal justice crosses the aisle for me. Now, when you move into the question of justice, we have to do that. I know you stated earlier, you're getting likes and you're getting hate on both sides of the aisle. You put yourself in a predicament now, just like me being a MAGA supporter, uh law enforcement, what makes you a Trump supporter? Well, number one, I think he's sort of what brother Austin said. He has tremendously helped this country when it comes to our economy. He's kept his promises. No matter what we say about being here in this room with the Epstein

files, he's kept his promise with that. He's a law and order. He's a law and order president. And what about this war in Iran, though? All this money going there. Oh, absolutely. Well, it's finally going somewhere that we are a part of. Of course, we gave billions of dollars under your party's administration with Biden to Ukraine uh to fund a war that we had nothing to do with. Don't you think for now? And we don't want Iran to have any nuclear weapons. I agree with He's going to come at $200 billion to Congress. You certainly don't want $200 billion, right, to going to the Middle East war

instead of funding things in North Carolina, jobs, healthcare, childare. I agree with that. But if that stops Iran from ever taking over the world with their missiles, let's make it happen. We want a safer world for everyone in I agree with that. But I don't Anyway, let's go back to the claims. What about Lutnik? Let resigning in terms of here's here's my problem with Lutnik, you know, and you tell me what I may miss. He went on television and he said, "I never met Epstein after 2005." And you know, Donald Trump actually in 2006 placed a phone call saying that Epstein was a terrible guy, that he was doing terrible things. Now kicked him out of Mara Lago too because of those reasons.

So why would you then hire someone in your cabinet who is lying about when he met Epste and then goes with his whole family and meets Epstein in 2012? He lied to the American public. If you lied as a law enforcement officer, would you still have your job? Uh, depends on what the lie was. But if you're looking at someone, we have to go back to Joe Biden. How about his son Hunter Biden? They covered up the laptop deal. I'm not They did all that with the drugs. They did it with the weapons. I'm not going to I know, but we're going to talk about President Trump's administration who I think uh Mr. Luckman is doing a great

job. Look at what he did in 911. He had over 350 employees that were killed in the 9/11 and that was a terrible tragedy. Terrible tragedy. But don't you think he owes the least the country an apology for lying and saying, "Hey, I shouldn't have said that I never met him." I think he should have been forthcoming. He should have been straight honest about it. What we do know when he went to Jeffrey Epstein's island pedophile, he was there with his family. So, he couldn't have done anything malicious.

Let me ask you this. You're a law enforcement guy. I am. Someone's convicted as a pedophile. you know that they're convicted as a pedophile. Would you ever take your family to their island? Absolutely not. Okay. Why shouldn't the same standard apply to Howard Lnik? Well, because that island wasn't only of course when you look at it, there were certain parts as some people have already testified. They had no idea that there was other portions of that island that dealt with sexual crimes. They were there to matter of fact, Mr. Lexer said it was the worst island he ever seen. He don't even know why anybody would even purchase such.

You wouldn't be even close to that. Let alone taking I don't know if you have kids. Oh, absolutely. I wouldn't be close to it, but we have to realize because you got a moral I can tell just talking about you've got a moral center. You care about law and order. You're person of faith. So my point with Lutnik is not he's not a bad person. I say I don't know him, but you can't lie about doing something like that. And what type of judgment to go to an island of someone you know is a convicted pedophile who President Trump himself is saying did horrible things and you're doing you're still allegedly doing business with that person. Right?

I'm not saying Lutnik raped young girls. Of course I'm not making that allegation. I'm not saying that he engaged in the conduct. I'm saying why wasn't he honest and he showed terrible judgment? Okay, affiliating with this guy. Agree. We can move on from that. Uh, I believe he should have and he knows that he should have just became forthcoming when he was asked. All right, we got to pause there. You've been voted out by the majority. Good. Good conversation.

Hi. Hi, Uda. Great to see you. I love how you say my name. Good to see you, too. Is it correct? Yeah. So, before we get into the um prompt right here, I wanted to address something that you said earlier about the two-tier system. Yeah. Um, so obviously I work in politics. I work in policy. So I'm really asking questions on behalf of the people who are watching the average American who may not have access um to information.

What do you do in policy and politics? I do um independent political commentary and public policy and public health. Um so my question with the two-tier um system comment that you said, do you think that it's fair for the average American's um trust in the American system to increase or decrease? Right now it has decreased and I think it's fair for it to decrease, but that's really sad for our country because we've got to do big things. We've got to provide health care for folks, child care for folks. We're dealing with an AI revolution. We need a jobs program in this country for good paying jobs. And we can't do all of that if the faith is decreasing.

Okay. So, something that I wanted to ask is that a high frustration that I do have is that a lot of politicians on both sides of the aisle, they like to use moments to politicize real trauma that people go through. It's almost like y'all taking this issue that people real victims has have gone through and it's almost like politicizing it for personal political agenda. But certainly you don't think Thomas Massie and I have done that, right? We always had the surprise to a certain degree. I'm asking you if the current administration wasn't Trump's administration, would you still have the same amount of energy and venom that you do now when it comes to pushing these files to be released?

I don't know if I have venom, but I have anger. Oh, I wouldn't use the word venom. I apologize. But I have I do have anger against these rich and powerful people who abused these young girls and how they got away with it. And I'm disgusted by the way this Epstein class was acting. So if the current administration switch, would you still have the same type of energy is my question. I do think so because it's a bipartisan mass. But here's what I will give say to Donald Trump. I mean he Donald Trump aside no he giving him some credit in that he raised the public awareness of this right. He campaigned on this issue

and so I don't know if I would have met the survivors and paid as much attention to it if he hadn't done that. But here's what I'm most disappointed with. You know, Vance was out on every podcast saying, "We're going to get the Epstein files. We're going to get the Epstein files." That's true. He did say that. What happened to where is the guy? No, that's true. I do give you that. Where is he? Like I don't know where what happened to him. Another question that I had with Lutnik um based like this is me coming from an independent obviously my feelings may

say okay he needs to resign but also we have to back it up with facts what on a factual standpoint what crime did he commit to where you okay so you're saying based off principle yeah I don't think he committed a crime I just want to be very clear because I don't I'm I'm not in terms of this is not a witch hunt and I never ex try to exaggerate the facts what Lutnik did is not criminal I'm not calling for a criminal investig based off morality and princip lied to the American people. He li he said that he did not have any interaction with Epstein after 2004. So based off morality and principle.

Morality and principle. And he's the and he's the ambassador to the world for business. Okay. So if we're going based off morality and principle, shout out to Aaron because we were having this conversation prior, but he brought up a good point that we were discussing Stacy Plaset. She was texting Epstein during a hearing. Do you think that she should step down as well? cuz if you're going to have energy on one end, you have to keep that same energy. I have called for her to be subpoenaed and I think she should be under oath and testify and we should ask her questions about it. If it came out that she told lies about her relationship or if she said previously, "Oh, I never knew

Epstein, etc." Then I would have the same moral standard. But here's the one difference. And Stacy Plask has to answer to voters, right? Voters can toss her out. Howard Lutnik is appointed and I just don't I think it's a terrible look for Donald Trump. I mean, if he's Another thing that I want to say, and I'm sorry to interrupt. No, it's okay. You said that within like the two-tier system, like it's fair for the average American to lose faith within this American system, um, or justice system. So, what would you say is your argument next then? Like, if you're saying you're

doing these things, um, what would make the average American who's watching this want to like continue to vote, continue to engage? If you're saying, "Okay, I don't blame them for losing um, trust in the system that's supposed to protect." need to see rich and powerful people being investigated and prosecuted. They need to see Leon Black, Les Wexner, and others who have had serious allegations. But is it only rich and powerful? Because some of y'all are tokens for the rich and powerful. Some of y'all are enabling certain behavior. The politicians too, the politicians as well who were involved. They need to see, you know, for so long in this country, we have not had to lead

accountability. the people who got us into the war in Iraq, the folks who created the great recession, the folks uh who bungled the pandemic response, the there is no accountability. We need to have accountability for what I call this class. Again, a lot of people may be watching this and say, "Okay, it just sounds like a lot of politician talk, like political talk." So, the average person that's watching this, the average person that's not necessarily engaged in the political process, to them, it's like, "I've heard this all before. I've heard it all."

Here's the difference. Massie and I have actually shown courage to get it done. It's not just a speech. You actually passed a law. The time that y'all did it though, that's that's where a lot of people are pushing back. And I give you credit 100%. I give credit for what y'all are doing. But when it comes to the authenticity of it, a lot of people are pushing back like, okay, this But we took huge risk. We've taken on some of the most powerful people in our own party, donors of our own, public scrutiny as well. The public wanted it.

Yeah. But we've had billionaires funding campaigns against us. We've taken risk and we've gotten something done. It's not just idle talk. We actually did the work. We passed it through the House, the Senate. We're getting these files released. And I think people want courage. We want folks who are going to say, "Yeah, courage." And they also want to voted out by the majority. Please. Thank you. God bless. Hi Chris. Good to see you. Thanks for coming out today. Appreciate it.

Thank you. What's MT Montana Allied Pacific? That is the Allied Pacific. It's in the Merchant Fleet. Good oil tank. Okay, great. Keeps our country going strong. I'm big for the merchant fleet. Now, I do have a couple questions with Letic specifically. Obviously, he said he didn't know Epstein. Then all of a sudden, okay, we were neighbors and I met him one time. He said some creepy stuff about a massage. never want to talk to him again. And then it was, okay, well, I did go to the island, but I was with my family, so nothing weird. And it's, you know, a pattern of lying.

Yeah. So, if he's lying about that, what else is he lying about? And, uh, a lot of people, and I'm speaking for other people that aren't here today, perhaps, uh, believe that, you know, through Epstein, he was compromised potentially by a foreign intelligence agency, perhaps MSAD from Israel. And through that, many people have been compromised and are skewing on both party aisles, politicians and rich influential people are skewing American foreign policy towards a policy of protectionism of Israel in the Middle East against American interest to your knowledge. Is that something you find credible?

I don't know. And I've always tried to be on factual basis. So Julie Brown, who's reported about this, has said that there are legitimate questions about Epstein's ties to intelligence agencies either here or uh overseas to several countries. And what I have said is that the president should convene a task force that either declassifies information or requires us uh to have a report to answer these questions because they're are legitimate questions. Our law does not touch the classified information. Congress can't just have a law to declassify information. So, it would be pure speculation. But here's what I can say on USI Israel. I mean, I have been pretty clear. I voted against

the funding to Netanyahu for the war in Gaza. I voted against that when Joe Biden was president, against my own president. I have said that what happened there, as the UN has said, uh was a genocide, and there are people who don't like that, but I've been very clear about that. and I've said that we need to recognize a Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel state. Okay. Do you personally believe that Epstein was perhaps captured by foreign intelligence? And if not, what would be your explanation for him coming into this wealth and having the influence and power he did with these individuals?

I have no idea what the reason was. I mean, this is why we need to investigate. But one of the reasons could be that he had he was trafficking young girls and there could have been people who wanted access to these young w young girls. Uh and so who knows what the reason was uh and what his ties were. But I certainly think you're not the only person who has these questions. There are a lot of Americans who have these questions and we need transparency and this president or the next president should have a report on uh what uh the true status of Epstein was just like we had the JFK files the King files. I mean

my sense you tell me that this is common conversation at a bar at a restaurant. This has gotten into the popular culture and the American people aren't just going to move on the Epstein matter. What do you think? Oh absolutely. I mean, I hear left and right on both sides, people talking about this. Epstein's relation with uh Barack, Ahood Barack, the former prime minister and head of the IDF in Israel. There are plans over in the Ivory Coast where they helped president believe it was Otara maintain power with an Israeli intelligence package. Uh they did a very similar thing in your politics. Are you a Trump spur, a Democrat, independent?

What are your politics? I'm independent personally. I'd like to feel like I'm basically a Republican from the '90s. I believe the MAGA movement kind of destroyed the party a little bit. Um, and unfortunately now the Republic How do young Republicans like you feel about the USIsrael relationship? What do you think it should be? Well, I'm in an awkward position because I do want to just address I am a religiously practicing Jew, so it probably won't be super popular at synagogue after this, but that's okay.

You know, while I do have empathy for my fellow Jews in Israel, as I think anyone would for their people, uh, I don't believe that we should be giving preferential treatment to any nation, Israel included. um that is not pro America or to uh our ends beneficial. And do you agree that with my view that if I'm saying that the UN found that what Netanyahu did in Gaza was a genocide that's very different than anti-semitism? Because some people say that if you criticize the Israeli government that in a definition of anti-semitism. Oh, I get accused online all the time of being anti-semitic and then it comes out I'm Jewish and the other side says, "Oh,

he's a MSAD agent or something." And it's very confusing. I don't know how me talking uh out about what Israel is doing makes me a mad. Maybe I'm controlled opposition. You never know. But how do other young Republicans or people you know feel in general? Again, I'm not a young Republican. The party left me quite a while ago. Young independents. A lot of young Americans just feel that a lot of our foreign policy with the Iran war, with the situation in Israel, many other things is kind of not the thing we should be focusing on. We have

some of the highest unemployment rates we've had. AI is coming. That's going to be worse. uh the entire stock market is crashing. Actually, today it got even worse as I was reading uh coming in here. So, I think a lot of young Americans look and it's like, hey, I'll never be able to buy a house. I can't find a good job despite the fact I went to college like I was told to. And then I just see on TV that these politicians are arguing about things going on in foreign countries that have nothing to do with my life. I give you I mean $200 billion in Iran.

We could have free public college for everyone here. We could have good jobs programs in every community here. We could pay teachers $60,000 for that. We could have universal child care here. Why aren't we focused on the American people? You know who used to say that? JD Vance. He was opposed to all these wars in Iran. He was that was what America first was supposed to be about. Put the money here in our communities money kind of the tech money kind of took him over on that one, I believe, and co-opted him out of that belief.

He's close to Peter Teal. I mean, I know. But the point is I don't know what happened to him. I really don't know what happened to him in terms of now he's advocating for spending billions of dollars in Iran. I mean, just looking at the economy, people are hurting. They can't buy a house. They can't have a good job. They can't have child care. They're in debt for co college. And what I'm saying is hold the Epstein class accountable and put the money here in the working class and middle class in America. All right, we got to stop there. We're out of time.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate your time. My final surrounded claim is that Britain held a royal accountable because of their role in the Epstein files. America should hold the powerful accountable, too. All right. If you would like to debate this claim, please get to the chair in three, two, one. Hi, Ome Congo. Great to see you. How are you, sir? Good to see you. You've been sitting patiently there.

You're looking for your moment. I just the yoga keeps me in Zen mode. I want to thank you so much for everything that you've done, you and Representative Massie, as it relates to putting the victims first. As a father of three, including two daughters, I'm also somebody who's worked across the world with young girls who have been trafficked. I've seen young children who've been sold by their parents in places like Congo for 25 cents. And so, this is something that is really Thank you. And Belgian colonialism in Congo was the most atrocious colonialism that the world has seen. I just want to say they so messed up that country and Congo is still dealing with the consequences.

Yes, my parents are from Congo so I've I've seen that. The question that I have with all of this that weighs on my heart is that there was a comment made by Marjorie Taylor Green at one point that representatives would actually go to the well and read the names of many of the accusers. Some names have come out, but there are more names. Why aren't more representatives going to the well and putting these names out there? Well, Massie and I actually did put out a couple names. Less Wexner, that's how we're getting the attention on him, and Sultan uh who was the CEO of Dubai Ports, and we forced the resignation.

The reality though is that many of these names are redacted in these files. And many of the survivors, they haven't told us the specific names. They've said, "I was raped by someone at 17." They're in the files, but they haven't shared the actual name. So, what we need is for those files to be unredacted, for those survivor statements to come out. Finally, if Marjorie Taylor Green, she's not in Congress, but someone like her goes to the floor, it would be seen as political. Uh, and people say, "What's the evidence? We really need the files to come out to have that kind of

accountability." Well, you did have the victims also who said in one of their conferences that they were actually working to put together their own list. And so why not work with them in putting that list together so that they can have a little bit of the encouragement because they've talked so much about being followed, being threatened, being run off the road, and maybe if they had a little bit more support from you all, they'd be able to put that list together. And just because something doesn't appear in the files, I mean, you find these women to be credible, as many of us do as well, why not encourage them to do that so those names could be read.

I do think the victims have been enormously courageous. They are hoping that the rest of the files still come out. When we started this, we didn't even think three million files would come out. But I have said to them that we will support them in any way. And if that means them putting together this list, we don't want to interfere because we don't want to politicize it. But certainly we would be supporting them and making sure that we could do whatever we can so that they aren't being sued in terms of a defamation lawsuit. And if there is some list that they themselves want us to read on the House floor, I'd be open to that. But it has to come uh from the victims. Uh but

and really though, what we need is the files released so that there's actual justice and investigation. I mean, the victims just saying this thing and then nothing happens. You know, there's still buildings named after Leon Black. Yes, indeed. In Dartmouth, I mean, how does Dartmouth not take the name down? So, what they are most concerned about is even if they name these names, where's the accountability? Where's the investigation and prosecution? So when we're moving forward as we're talking about that when we talk about the UK and other places where there have been other consequences some of these other consequences have come from the financial ties that have been deser

developed because they can't actually prosecute some of these cases. Why aren't we taking some of that path in the same in the United States as well? Well we should I mean it is don't you find it ironic that two American Congress people exposed all these Epstein files Massie and me and yet America is doing the least to hold people accountable. Every other country is moving. Britain, Norway, France. We need to be holding the financial crimes accountable. The people who gave tons of money to Epstein knowing he was a convicted pedophile. We need to get the banks subpoenaed to testify in front of

our committee. And Ron Widen is doing a great job there. And we need either this president or the next president to actually open investigations and prosecute people. Sex trafficking has no statute of limitation. And what are the chances that some of the investigations that are happening in the UK and other countries could actually be made their way to the United States to hope helps hold some of these individuals accountable who can't be named on the well of the house. Well, I believe that what happens in UK often happens six months later in the United States. So the fact that there is this may bring down the British government. uh it has uh totally tarnished the

British monarchy and that is going to create public pressure here in our country to say we want to hold this Epstein class accountable. What message does that send to the young girls you work with? If the elite are going to get away with this and have no accountability. All right, we got to pause there. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return. Appreciate you. All right, Santana. Good to see you. Likewise. Uh I want to start off by saying that if you do run in the next election, you got my vote.

I think Congress. Yes. President, whatever. Wow. Um no. Uh I Where do you live, Santana? I actually live in Washington State. One thing though that kind of uh pulls me back is the issue with all of your claims, not just this claim. Right. We can talk about the actual uh accountability that's had in the UK. Yeah. But if you take a look at the actual accountability, it's been all performative, right?

Interesting. When you talk about the actual titles being stripped in 2019, when you talk about the military uh duties being stripped in 2022, or you talk about the official royal titles being stripped in uh 2025, all of it's been performative. Even when Andrew went to jail, it was based off of misconduct is in public office. And the premise that the United States of America should follow suit of the UK, it speaks to some other country, not us. Right. The United States is supposed to be uh Ronald Reagan said the United States is the shining city on the hill. Yeah. Right. And also, if we want to be number one in the world, we claim to be number one, right? Then we should

actually take this issue and make this issue our issue. That's a fair point. Actually, it's a fair critique. Look, we aren't even doing what UK is doing. We aren't even doing what Norway is doing. But you're called saying we should be setting the moral standard for the world. We shouldn't just be following and that the uh actions in Britain don't go far enough. I agree with that and I would love to see a uh new president come in and say we are going to go after the rich and powerful who raped these girls or abused these girls or showed up to parties where girls were being paraded naked. We're going to go after the financial crimes uh and that we are

going to have uh a single system of justice in this country. Well, see, and you talk about a single system. I look at a lot of things through an intersectional lens, right? You can talk about race, gender, class. Exactly. Right. So, you can talk about the ultra wealthy versus the, you know, the halves and have nots, but if you don't take a look at how everyone is impacted by the different things that happen within the country, then like we're we're leaving a lot of meat on the bone. Well, look, I mean, I don't have to tell you about the problems of mass incarceration. The fact that one in three black men will find some time in jail, and this is because of the war uh

on drugs. This is because of mandatory minimums. This is because we've had an intentional policy in this country targeting in the criminal justice system black men. So, we've got to talk about race and we've got to talk about gender. Class is also an issue. Yeah. But I don't believe that we can just talk about class and ignore that we've had 250 years of slavery in America and 100 years of Jim Crow in America and we've had previous instances in the 50s and 60s of black men being beaten, black women being beaten and no prosecution. So elite impunity is not something new in America.

Yeah. Well, and if you talk about the Constitution of the United States of America, when it was first written, it was written for white men that own land. And everyone else after that has been given the rights. And if we want to ever really make our country great, then there's so many things that we have to do, but we have to address the original sins of our country and then actually look to do things to better our country and just saying like, oh, well, I'm a believer in this country's founding principles, right? My grandfather spent four years in jail as part of Gandhi's independence movement in the 1930s and the 1940s. I was born in Philadelphia or bsentenary and as

we're coming to our 250 year history I just saw 1776 at the Ford's theater and how Jefferson actually initially in the declaration of independence wanted to say that the scourge of slavery needs to be ended but to get the votes of the southern colonies South Carolina North Carolina and Georgia they had to take that passage out of the Declaration of Independence. I think that's what you've been doing so far and it's taking that same sense as far as like you understand

that you have to play political lines and so you haven't been as aggressive as you want to be because there's a lot that's happened and when you talk about the Epstein transparency act I look through it and there's so many loopholes that has lent itself to not being accountable and that's why Pam Bondi, Donald Trump, all the other people they've been able to skirt through but that's because of lack of teeth as a whole. Well, I think we should have had a civil cause of action, as I said, but they're certainly being uh breaking the law and they can be prosecuted for obstruction of justice, but my view is that a new administration needs to come in and have the elites accountable, not

just in the Epstein matter, but the people who blew up the boats of fishermen in the Caribbean, the folks who shot Alex Prey and Renee Good, the folks who dismantled us a But do you think that'll happen? Because we got to pause there. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to appreciate it. Hello. You're back. I am. You were so eloquent last time. Take it easy on me. No, absolutely not. All right. So, um, one, I actually do agree that anyone that is guilty should be held accountable. Okay. So when I first spoke

with you, I said we cannot take being named in these files as an admission of guilt or as proof of guilt. My other frustration and I have to say, what do you think should be the level of proof when it comes to actually holding someone when as you call it accountable and what do you want to see done to these people? Because again, just being mentioned is not enough to send someone to jail. It's a great question. Well, I think they're different standards of proof. For a person to be actually in convicted of a crime, it has to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, I do

believe that there are people like Les Wexner, uh Leon Black, and others where there should at least be an investigation and uh there may be uh evidence to prosecute beyond a reasonable doubt. But in terms of having buildings named after you and being on honorary boards and being in positions there, I don't think the standard needs to be reasonable beyond a reasonable doubt. If your name is tarnishing the reputation of an institution, a lot of them have those clauses that uh if you've named a building but your name becomes toxic, then they can take action. I believe if they're serious allegations, you should be removed.

Is an allegation the same as proof? Because I'm so as a black woman, as a brown person, you know that there are black and brown men in jail off of allegations, not actual proof. Most of the people in these people, most of these allegations aren't against black and brown men. Most of these people are ultra wealthy folks. I mean, let me tell you example of one survivor. She went to Santa Monica. She accused this person of rape.

They said, "Who is this person?" Well, I don't want to mention her name. She's one of the survivors. And then they told her, "Come back a week later because you may not have gotten it right." They still didn't do anything right. This was 1997. There are a lot of cases of women who have made legitimate claims and they were denied. say a legitimate claim again. So I will say I have a cousin that went to jail for multiple years because his girlfriend claimed that she raped him. Okay? I am very much pro any abuser being in jail, but I'm also pro the complete burden of proof. You understand? Because it is not okay to accuse anyone of doing something absolutely horrible and then not

demanding that it is beyond a reasonable doubt that they have done. So when you're saying that all of these people have been accused again or that they might be implicated, that is not enough to demand that their lives be turned upside down. Again, if these people are guilty of something, I want them held accountable. Do you believe some of them are? I'm sure they had to be, right? Some of them had to be. The frustration I have with the left is that there's this demand for so much accountability when it comes to the rich and the elite

because you just want to hate the rich and the elite for I represent the Silicon Valley. It's $20 trillion. There's a lot of people like Jensen Wong who I admire who is leading uh Nvidia. There are people like I don't want to get sidetracked. Sorry. So my frustration is as a regular everyday American citizen I feel that I am more likely to be harmed by democratic policies such as open borders because in your state for secure borders.

Okay. So but in your state something like 4,600 or so illegal migrants that had criminal records were re-released from jail. So when we're talking about harming Americans, when we're talking about children potentially being harmed, when we're looking into child trafficking, we have to acknowledge that illegal migration is the biggest funnel for child trafficking. So when we're worried about Epstein with a couple of people and you guys turn a blind eye to tens of thousands of children being harmed by your policy, that's we have been for a secure border. But here's what I want.

The no one in California can say that they're for a secure border. Well, that's a policy I've been pushing for. But let me say this. Instead of having ICE raids in places like Minneapolis, killing Americans like Alex Prey and Rene Good and doing raids on undocumented folks here who may be paying taxes and having a restaurant, how about we have the focus on the border to stop the terrorists or to stop the gangs or to stop sex trafficking. I rather focus on the border rich people who are committing significantly less sex trafficking crimes. Not saying that they're innocent, but your anger towards this seems very skewed and very hypocritical towards them is because they are feel

like they're above the law that they use. And so do these migrants that get right back out of jail when you guys let them out. But I am not. They are above the law. They are at a tier that gets to walk free whenever they want. I believe that if you've committed a violent crime or a terrible crime in this country, uh you should face deportation. But you guys don't do it. You believe it, but you let these people go. Obama had a record of having secured the border and there were a lot of criminals who were deported. What I don't agree with is what ICE is doing,

putting terror in communities. I mean, let me ask you this. If I feel comfortable with I'm not a criminal illegal immigrant, so I feel very comfortable. I'm not terrorized by them. And I'm from New York, Brooklyn, New York. Okay. If there's an undocumented immigrant here, right, came across without their papers and they opened a restaurant and they've been why are they allowed to do that? Why are they taking that place away from someone else? Right? Let's say they've been here 10 years and they're paying taxes. Do you think ICE should go and try to deport them or do you think that we So, we just disagree there. I think that if you're going to go after

someone that was on Epstein's Island 10 years ago, then you should go after people that came here legally 10 years ago. I think it's disingenuous for you guys to be focused on one thing that's so much smaller than this really large issue. Looking at someone who came here undocumented for the American dream. Now I'm for my parents came here through the legal process. We should have a path to legalization. It's those people like yourself and rich and powerful people who are rigging the system and uh feel like they're totally above the law. I mean the people an undocumented person is much more vulnerable. They don't have access to politicians.

They're vulnerable because of your make them vulnerable. We got to pause here. You've been voted out by the majority. Good. Thank you. Hi Stephen, good to see you. Thank you for being here. I will have to say I totally agree with uh you and also with the gentleman earlier who said that America should not only be following the example of England and these other countries that are enforcing justice due to the Epstein files, but also that we should be leading Prince Andrew, former Prince Andrew, eighth in line to the throne. the uh Great Britain ambassador to the

United States, the former prime minister of Norway, uh Latvia, Lithia, Lithuania, Es Estonia, France, so many countries charging people and in the United States, I believe two have been charged with crimes. Yes. Um Epstein and Maxwell. Exactly. And uh you gave credit to Merger Taylor Green. Um, I earlier said, um, you know, I'm cursing Donald Trump for finally making me agree with Marjgery Taylor Green. And reportedly Donald Trump said to Marjgery Taylor Green when she was saying, as you mentioned, be a hero. You know, do this.

He said, "But it'll hurt my friends." Yeah. Well, that's that goes back to the two-tier justice. That's the two-tier justice. And this is the reason that the files haven't come out for decades. This is the reason these women were abandoned for decades because they were these rich and powerful people on both sides and they knew politicians, they knew presidents. I mean, isn't it a terrible statement of American democracy that Epstein knew both Bill Clinton and Donald Trump? Like, what type of country are we living in that uh that is this Epstein class's uh tentacles into our ruling uh leaders? We need a clean start in this country. We need a new generation that hasn't been tainted by

this kind of corruption uh to have a new moral direction for America. Totally agree. And I think it should also go back to Aosta who gave him that first, you know, amazingly good plea deal. You know, there probably been people who have gone for, you know, a marijuana cigarette, have gone to jail for longer than he did for that with being able to be at home. I mean, a guy is someone who raped girls under 18. It's the one thing Americans agree on. Republican, Democrat, MAGA, progressive. You don't rape American girls. You don't rape young girls. And this person was doing it and trafficking them and abusing them and he goes to jail for one

year and then also that he can be at home and he by the way he continues his abuse after. It is a disgusting moment for this country and we need to have a moral reckoning. And we need to have a moral reckoning with why so many elites, business elites, Silicon Valley elites, technology and Hollywood elites were fine hanging out with him after all of this. Yes. All right, we got to stop there. You've been voted out by the majority. Please return to your seat.

Thank you. Enjoyed it. Hi, Austin. Good to see you again. Good to see you again, Congressman. So, I'm going to start this off with a quick question. When was the last time that the US federal government was found guilty and held accountable for inherent acts of corruption and extreme acts of corruption? Case in point, the assassination of Martin Luther King, the government was found guilty of a civil suit in the '90s. Yes. Uh and uh we know it's been well documented that there have been multiple um pieces of evidence presented that the US government itself may have been involved in the assassination of President John Kennedy after he signed executive order 11110

which began the process of directing the Treasury to issue silver bullion certificates. He lost his life a couple weeks after he signed that order. Nobody was held accountable for that at mass. Can you tell me of an instance when the rich and the elite that have put many of the other congressmen like yourself in office have actually been held accountable for the crimes they've committed? Well, there certainly have been people held accountable in the savings and loans crisis. Uh there have been people held accountable in the financial crisis, though not enough, right? We should have prosecuted the bankers in the great recession. And that

was one of the big misses that we haven't. And we haven't had enough accountability for people who got us into the war in Iraq. And I believe we haven't had enough accountability for people who raped these young girls or trafficked. So, uh, if you're saying that we have a problem of elite impunity, that rich and powerful people in this country aren't held accountable, you're right. And that's what I'm trying to Well, I think what we have a problem with is that the rich and the elites can purchase politicians. This is exactly why I'm very pro getting rid of Citizens United, the overturning.

I agree with that. But would you agree that we shouldn't have had Musk spend $300 million, elect Donald Trump, and then go work for Donald Trump? I agree with that. Would you also agree that instances like that like the B when the Biden administration was targeting Facebook and Twitter for anyone that was uh offering addition we'll say contradictory to the mainstream narrative information around co these people had their accounts banned creators had I'm a free speech person and I've sp spoken up for free speech I saw you have a digital free speech bill of rights that you

I do have a digital free speech when they were censoring on Twitter before mush voted I actually had an email leak where I said no you can't do that you can't censor that it's New York Post I'm a big free speech person but What's distorting free speech are billionaires spending millions of dollars on federal elections and targeting folks. I mean, Massie is being targeted because he had the guts to pass this bill. He's got billionaires literally putting millions of dollars against him. That is wrong. We've got to get that money out of politics. All right, we got to pause there. Please return.

Thank you. Well, that was great. I thought you all were uh really well practiced and confident and eloquent. You made great points. you kept it civil. You know, you should be very proud and hopefully uh your families and friends will be proud when they see these clips. But I think that this is the kind of civil exchange that we need to model in this country. So, thank you and thank you for uh having a really great session. All right, and we are out of time. That does it for this episode. Let's give a hand to the representative. Thanks for being here.

Uh please acknowledge the humanity of all the participants when you're commenting on this video. Thank you all for being here and sharing your stories and your perspectives on this very important issue. Tune in Wednesday for a follow-up conversation with me and some of the cast members in the circle here. We will dig deeper into some of the highlights from this video. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. I am not a fan of the Epstein Files Transparency Act simply because I don't think it makes sense for the general public to know this much information about this case. I definitely tried to grill him a bit. So I felt positively

about his responses. I do think he was a little political, a little politically correct. He definitely came with his prepared talking points. As for whether or not I believe him means what he says and he believes what he says and he's actually fighting the good fight. After the conversation I had with him kind of initially walking in here, I didn't at all, which is actually what I wanted to press him on. I very much felt like he was I'll use the word I genuinely believe he was lying about his uh reasonings behind not putting any sort of penalties into the Epstein files um transparency act. Then after talking to him I maybe do kind of think he's

telling the truth a little bit. I think everyone kind of came in with their own agenda here today which I'm definitely guilty of. Uh but yeah know I think everyone held their own. Even people I didn't necessarily disagree with, I mean agree with rather were very good and eloquent about stating their points. And yeah, I think it was a good talk overall.