So lovely uh to meet you gentlemen, to see you gentlemen. Uh the book the future is peace. It is a honestly a beautiful testament to the two of yours friendship and the pilgrimage that you took together. But I want to add uh some weight to the trip you take. uh you have both been touched by the tragedies in uh Israel and Palestine. I'll start with you Aziz. Yeah, I grew up in East Jerusalem. I grew up with the occupation. I mean I was shot at first time when I was I think seven or eight years old. Had to be frisked going to school. I carried an onion every day with me to school because I was afraid of tear gas. And I told my mom I'm not going to school anymore. And she said,

"No, if you take an onion and you cut it and when they shoot tear to your gas at you, you just have to smell it." So that was my normal days. And then when I was Does that work? It I hope it does because it worked for me. I can't tell you if it's going to work for you, but it did. It gave me the confidence to go to school because I was terrified of going to school. And then I was 9 years old. My brother was arrested from home. I'm the youngest of seven. He's the one just older than me. This is Tacier.

Tacier. Yeah. and uh he was taken to interrogation, was beaten up, tortured and uh allegation of throwing rocks and uh eventually because of that beating he ended up uh dying soon after he was released from prison. And you were how old when your brother? I was 10 years old. I was mad. I was very angry. All I wanted is revenge at that point. And this is by the way. So you two shared a room. You shared a bed. We shared a bed. Yes. And you write very movingly of that day where the bed is cold. Yeah. I tacir was more like my parent than my brother.

I'm the oops child. I wasn't planned for. Sure. And which really makes no sense because you know parents are religious. An onion. Yes. You get an onion in there. My parents being religious Muslims don't drink alcohol. And I never understood how do you make an child if you don't have a bottle of wine with that. They're holidays, birthdays, it happens. No, but he basically my parents handed me to him and he's the one who took me to school my first day. He's the one who protected me. He's the one who took care of me. And when he died, I was I felt

like my protector is gone. And Mos tragedy hit you more recently. Yeah, my parents and Yakobi were among the first victim of the Hamas attack. We the last time I spoke with them was Saturday morning 7:45 a.m. speaking to my father. They were in the safe room. They lived only 200 meters in Moshavetasara Israeli community, the closest Israeli community to the Gaza border on the north side. And I told my dad that I love him. I could hear my mom at the background. They told me that there is a war around them that they can hear the shooting, the missiles, the sirens. So I told that, "Okay, I'll call you soon." And 5 minutes after I called them and there

was no answer. And later in the afternoon, we got the news that their house is burned to was burned to ashes with them inside. And on that day, I lost many of my childhood friends, people I knew my entire life. And uh first thing Sunday morning we started the Shiva the seventh day of morning for the Jewish people. And on the second day we were sitting together me my three sisters and my young brother asked us to take a family decision that we are rejecting revenge that we don't want to avenge the death of our parents of our beloved parents because avenging their death is not going to bring them back to life. It will only escalate the cycle of

violence, bloodshed and suffering that we Palestinian Israelis been trapped within for a century. And we choose to take my brother, young brother, advice. And this is the message we've been sending ever since. In that moment, in that moment, in that moment, only two days after what was it that you said you wanted only revenge and you're 10 years old. I imagine it's it's an incredibly formidable uh and seinal experience in your life. When did you move off of the feeling of vengeance? Took me eight years because when you 10 years old, you feel if somebody it felt like somebody punched me in the face and if somebody punches you in the face, you

feel when you're 10, you punch back. And I felt I would be a terrible brother if I don't. But at 18, I went to study Hebrew for the first time in my life. And uh my Hebrew teacher was an Israeli Jewish woman. All my class was Jewish immigrants to Israel. And I met the first Israeli ever who treated me like a human being that looked at me at 18. At 18, I met many Israelis, usually soldiers at checkpoints or settlers who came into our towns and uh and burned homes and cars and so on. But this teacher treating me differently put me on this journey because I suddenly realized we don't have to be on opposite sides. We can be in the same side fighting for justice together, fighting

for peace together. We not enemies. This idea of dividing us Israeli versus Palestinian is a terrible one. If you must divide us, it's those of us who believe in justice and equality in peace and those who don't yet. That's uh now how How then, if I may, how does this happen? How did the two of you I signed up to an app called J Date? I was. Have you still joined there? I was trying to get you, John, but I got I wasn't very happy.

Understood. I'm not on there anymore, but understood. Uh, incredible. what's in the book slightly different story. Uh but you were working together in that space of peace. Yes. And after uh October the 7th, you reached out. Was that difficult for you to do? And was that difficult for you to receive? No, it was not difficult. It wasn't the first time I've done it to somebody who's lost family members. Mhm. And I didn't do it because I knew if he would respond or not. I've met Ma O a few years earlier. We both work in

tourism as well, tourism and peace building. And I just felt in times like this, you need to show empathy. You need to show love. You need to reach out to people who suffer. It doesn't matter if they're Israeli or Palestinian, you need to take an initiative. And I knew I should do it. It wasn't even something I had to think about. Yeah. And it was only three days after I lost my parents. And the night before I had a vision.

Mhm. As I was crying in bed at night, my entire body was in pain. And through my tears, I could see the entire humanity crying with me. We were all crying and our tears went down our body. Our bodies. And our bodies were wounded from the war. They were crushed. They were burned. And as our tears were washing our bodies, our tears healed us, cured us. And then our tears started going down to the earth. And the earth was soaked with blood. You could not see sand, grass, flowers. It was all blooded. And then our tears start purifying the land and the land become shining and brilliant. And then in my vision, I could see a path. I could see the path of peace and reconciliation.

And I made a decision in know that in order to heal myself to save myself from drawing drowning in an ocean of sorrow and pain, I must choose this path. And few hours after I received this message Aziz offering his condolescence and it was like a hand reaching out saving me from falling into the abyss and since then and the last two and a half years working together quartering the future is peace. I can now say that yes I lost my parents family childhood friends people I knew my entire life but I want this I want this as a brother.

Thank you. what I thought is so brilliant about the book is it's really split up into parts. There's Aziz speaking for yourself. There's Moaz uh Mayo speaking for himself and the two of you speaking together. And what's so interesting about the book is reconciliation doesn't mean agreement. Mhm. And as you guys set off on this 8-day pilgrimage through different sites within uh your communities, whether it be the home where your parents are, whether it was your childhood home, you don't necessarily agree, but you allow the space for each other to speak the grace.

Yes. This is why it's a shared journey. So at the first day in Kibut Nam we are meeting Batya Sev a friend of my parents who lost her daughter her son-in-law and two of her grandchild on October 7th and an hour after we are speaking to Abdel Rahim from Gaza who lost many of his family members and they both are sharing their own pain but also encouraging us to continue on our journey on our journey to pursuit justice and peace. And so we go day after day meeting many people sharing stories from the history from the biblical time mythology and meeting the people on the ground and our people on the ground are transforming revenge into reconciliation despair into

hope and trauma into healing. Pope Francis told us when we met him that the only place that doesn't have disagreement and conflict is a cemetery. It's the only place that doesn't have conflict. There is no place in the world without some kind of conflict. The humans will disagree. It's about how we deal with that conflict. And what we decided to do, we said we're going to talk to each other, keep at it. Even when we disagree, even when we don't see eye to eye, until we solve our disagreement or figure out a way to live with that disagreement. How do you when you get into those moments of

well in 1948 the NAPA you know they were well you left the land on your own valition no they were chased out they were m what do you do in those moments where two histories collide with narratives that don't in any way align I'll give you an example from my dad please my father came to a peace his first peace agreement he was a peace meeting he was very opposed to me going and meeting Israelis in the beginning mainly he was afraid they're going to put me in prison. And the same thing that happened to my brother and to his cousin would happen to me. And he came and after he heard a few minutes, he raised his hand and he goes, "I have a question. This Holocaust thing

you guys talk about." I'm like, I was the chairman of that organization going like, "Oh no, I'm getting fired." And he goes, "Did it really happen?" And I'm already thinking, "I'm fired already." I love the fact though that no matter who you are, dads or dads, but your dad always your parents are your parents. no matter what. It's like, "Oh my god, DON'T DO THE ACCENT. WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" But he asked that or did the Israeli government uses it for what it's doing to us? And he goes on and you can hear a pin drop in the room. Nobody knew how to deal with it. And then my good friend, our good friend Ram Khan, whose father was in Avitz, he stood up and he

said, "I don't want you to believe in something you never learned about. If you willing, I'll have my dad who was in Avitz take you to the Holocaust memorial and walk you through it." and listen to the story. Listen to what he went through. And that's what we did. 70 other Palestinians went with my dad to the Holocaust memorial with the parent circle who organized this. And it was incredible. Wasn't easy. There were moments that were very tense. A whole day. People cried. People were hurt at times. People were upset at times. Two weeks later, the Israelis a week or two later in the same organization came and said, "You did this. We want to do the same. Can we come to a Palestinian

village that was destroyed in 1948? We want to hear your story. And again, it was not easy. It was really difficult. But unless we ask the difficult questions, unless we willing to not just walk on eggshells, which many people do, even the peace movement sometimes, we can't walk on eggshells. We need to be honest and say, "Here's where we disagree. Let's go and visit. Let's talk. Let's understand. Let's debate. It's fine. Let's debate it." So how is this you know when you are outside of I know my reaction to you guys all I want to do is hug you and talk about this beautiful book and how wonderful it is and Pope Francis is coming by and

going like let me tell you something friend like you know you're being received in a really heroic way. I think people are appreciating your courage and certainly your humanity and grace in Israel and Palestine. How do people do people perceive you as naive? Do they think this is cute but this isn't meaningful? How do they view this journey and this relationship? So I'm feeling we are feeling supported appreciated than ever in our life before. And if it when we met Pope Francis just after this the event at the arena de patcha in Verona an amazing out of body experience meeting the pope I had to stop him from converting almost like I'm going Catholic.

Yeah. And then once she is circumcised there's no going back. That's the toothpaste is out of the tube unfortunately. And the moment it ended, my aunts, my father, sister called me sharing that they were crying in front of the TV watching us embracing with Pope Francis. And at the end of the month, April 30th, we're going to do a peace summit in Tel Aviv, where thousands, maybe even more Israelis and Palestinian will gather together, will prove that dialogue is already happening, that reconciliation is a grassroot process that we are we start investing within and that the future is of course peace. I think people we get legitimacy from these meetings. Us being here gives us legitimacy. Using

Yes. You have no idea how popular I'm just going to how small is this movement? We're trying to grow it but no meeting with Pope Francis gives us legitimacy but honestly it's gives us the ability to say look the world can see what's happening and we need to take a stand. Everybody needs to take a stand. No one can say, "Oh, this is not my problem. This is not my conflict." Everyone has to be involved. This is our message to Americans. I started watching you around the Iraq war. And I remember Yes. I haven't changed a bit. You look as young and beautiful. And I remember because most American media was super pro war. Even the liberals were very pro of the war. And

you took a stand to criticize that war and say war is wrong. And it was a comedy show. And I'm like, okay. He used his comedy show. Yeah. To stand for something. I can use my ability being a person to do and stand for something. Everyone can do it. Whether you are a comedian, whether you are in tourism, whether you are in politics, none of us really have an excuse. And we lost our family members. We know the price for it. People don't have to wait

until they lose somebody in their family to stand up for justice. That's such a beautiful statement. And I want to follow the point because it's something you make in the book. And by the way, I've been watching you since the Iraq war as well. You haven't changed a bit. No, but I it's a point you make in the book because there's a certain idea that oh uh dialogue and grace and common ground and humanity, it's so naive it will never solve the problem. But you know what strikes me as more naive? bombing your way to peace.

Yes. Killing your way to peace. That has never worked. It will not work now. It will not create any kind of solution. Without what you two are doing, everything else is meaningless. Everything else is violence. And so I would say I would challenge those at war and say that's not Exactly. Those who believe that bombs will bring quiet, right? That wall will defend and that war will bring security. They are the naive. We are here. We are the pragmatist. We are the voice of reason and we are those who learn from history that the only way to reach a s a sustainable peace and justice is only through dialogue only

through looking to the other side in the eye. Yeah. Start feeling his pain. Start listening to his trauma to his challenges acknowledging them. not necessarily agree but acknowledging and recognize his suffering, his pain and then start working together to create hope. If they can do it in Northern Ireland and they can do it in Rwanda and they can do it in various places in Israel and Egypt and Israel and Germany. Today we are marking the Holocaust day in Israel. the Holocaust day, but only seven years after the Holocaust, right, the reconciliation agreement between Israel and Germany was accomplished and signed.

No, this can be done. It can be done of it will be done and this journey that you take and I urge everybody uh to get this book because it is a beautiful traalog and the setting it's so interesting because it is in the Holy Land and so what you imagine as a pilgrimage is really the scenic backdrop of their healing journey. It's we walk down the street where Jesus uh walked towards his crucifixion. We went to the garden of Gethsemane. We are at the church of the holy spok at the dome of the rock and at it. But within that is their healing journey. And I want to give you as the last word. I know you have a sort of poem that you carry with you uh that

that you believe you know sums up the feeling here. So if you would and it's a travel. So what we did in the book is a journey and we want to invite everyone to travel with us and Sam Kasam who's a Palestinian poet wrote this incredible poem called travel tickets and says the day I'm killed my killer rifling through my pockets will find travel tickets one to peace one to the fields and the rain and one to the conscience of a humankind. So I beg you my dear killer do not waste such a thing do not ignore these tickets. Please take them and go travel. And that's our invite to everyone. Please take these tickets and go travel with us.

Thank you so much. The future is a mean.