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Do you ever walk into a hard conversation with good intentions and come out feeling worse? Today, I'm going to give you a simple system for repair that actually works. You're listening to Relish, the podcast for people ready to stop chasing self-improvement and start savoring their lives. If you're tired of the hamster wheel of healing and hungry for more joy, presence, and meaning, you're in the right place. Hey friends, it's Alysia and welcome back to Relish. This podcast is all about stepping off that hamster wheel of fixing, improving, and coming home to something truer. Presence, wholeness, joy. And one of the places we grow the most and also can suffer the
most is our relationships. Because relationships is where so many of our patterns show up. Relationships are where our work is revealed for many of us. In this episode, we're going to talk about how to have hard conversations through a mindful approach to communication. But this is not going to be a episode to create a perfect script. It's going to be about how to create the kind of inner and outer conditions that make repair possible. So today we're going to talk about what makes conversations hard conversations feel so hard. We'll explore what to do before you actually talk to anyone. So how to look at your own reactivity and take responsibility first. I'll walk you through a simple framework that you can
use and we'll apply a real example. And then I'm going to give you what I'm calling a conversation container that you can use to set yourself up for success. Before we dive in, if this podcast supports you, please follow, subscribe, download the episode and leave a fivestar rating and review. It really helps the work reach more people. Okay, so let's have a conversation about hard conversations. Here's the inevitable truth. Two people in relationship is a complicated thing. You got two people's nervous systems, two people's histories, two people's brains, two people's patterns, two people's brains doing like a constant
meaning making. And so more times than not, we are not going to be syncing up perfectly with that person. We are going to misunderstand each other. We are going to at times hurt the people that we love and we are going to get hurt by the people we love. That does not mean something's going wrong. That means you're human. That means you're in relationship. And the skill is not to never have a rupture. The skill is to be able to repair. And research supports that. Emotional regulation. And constructive communication during conflict predicts greater relationship satisfaction over time. So that means it's not the presence of the hard moments that is going to determine the outcome. It's how people move through them. I think one reason hard
conversations are so hard is because we are not just afraid of the topic. We are afraid of what it might mean. What if they reject me? What if I'm misunderstood or not heard? What if I make it worse? What if I get defensive and I collapse? What if they don't even care? So before we even talk about how to have the conversation, we have to be honest about what the conversation activates within us. So for yourself, think about someone you need to talk to about something, but you haven't talked about it yet. So this relationship in your life needs it. You know, it could be um a partner, a sibling, a boss, whatever. You sense the relationship would benefit. there's been some kind of
rupture in the past or there's something lingering but you haven't had the conversation yet. So bring that to mind and then consider why haven't you had this conversation? What are you afraid will happen if you tell the truth? What do you fear you might lose or what do you fear it might reveal? not judging, just becoming aware of what's here for now. Something I often joke about with my friends and family because it feels really true for me is that if I were on a desert island, I'd basically be fine. I mean, I experience very little suffering when I'm alone. And I know that's not true for everyone.
Some people struggle the most when they're alone. But for me, almost all my patterns show up when I'm around other people. My reactivity shows up in relationships. My shame shows up in relationships. My protectors show up in relationships. So when I say hard conversations, I'm not talking about a communication tactic. I'm talking about relationship as a path to growth. And I want to normalize that if you've tried to have conversations with someone and it didn't go so well, it might not be because you said the wrong words. It might be because one of you or both of you had some unprocessed emotion and then it became like two 5-year-olds trying to have a conversation.
Sound familiar? Anyone? So, the first step isn't to say it better or to find the perfect words. The first step is to meet yourself and get curious about your reaction. At the Hoffman process, we teach a concept called transference. It's a form of psychological projection. And I'm not going to get super specific into the details here, but this becomes a tool that helps us see my reaction to someone is often a mirror. There's a saying that we use, you spot it, you got it. If we are seeing something in someone else, positive or negative, it likely lives in us in some way. So for example, if I have a reaction to someone who is being quiet and not speaking up and I get curious about why I'm having that
reaction, what I find is sometimes I judge people who are really quiet because I myself have shame around being quiet and not using my voice and not speaking up. And so I go on to judge them, but really it's a judgment of myself. And at the same time, I will judge people who are really loud and taking up a bunch of space. And that too is because I learned not to take up space. So I now resent people who do. That's transference. Now, are those people who are being quiet or loud doing anything wrong? No. They're just being them. My reaction to them is mine.
Now, this is really related to my brain's experiences and what it's predicting based on my past experience and my past pain. This is why something that triggers me might not trigger you at all. So, the point that I want to get to here is my reaction is my and it's my responsibility. That doesn't mean that the other person did nothing wrong or didn't do something wrong. I mean, sometimes another person is like what I would say objectively being loud or obnoxious or taking up space without awareness and taking that space away from other people. That can be true. So, it doesn't mean there's not a real impact. But what it means is if I don't look at my own reaction first, I won't be able to see the situation clearly because my reactivity toward
them is getting in the way. It becomes like a lens that skews my perspective. When I have an experience, it is my subjective experience. It's mine. Two people can experience the same moment very differently. Now, there is some objective experience of what happened, but both of us had subjective experiences of that moment. With mindfulness, it is possible for me to become aware of what's my subjective experience and aware that might be different from the other person's subjective experience and it may align or diverge from the objective reality. Being able to hold all of that is seeing clearly.
It's not about finding the objective. It's seeing that we only see through a subjective lens. And when we're in a reactive state, we cannot do that. There's no possibility for what happened. There's only one truth. A good clue that you're in that kind of reactivity is if you have the thought, I've got this person all figured out. I know exactly what happened for them. I know why they uh didn't make eye contact with me. I know why they didn't put a period at the end of that text. I know why they didn't use an emoji. I know why they didn't call me back. And in my claim to know, if I'm knowing, there's no space for
possibility of what else could be happening there. Because is it possible the person didn't even know you were making eye contact or that they were in a rush replying or that they didn't get a missed call? Yes, those are all possibilities. We cannot check any of those out if we are stuck in our own story and also unaware that it is a story. So the point is if I don't do my own work first, I will walk into that conversation thinking my story and my reaction is objective truth. Each of our subjective lenses is being informed by our own pain, our own wounds, our own past histories. And if I can't see clearly, the conversation will be two wounded parts trying to solve a problem through one lens. So the first
step is notice what is my reaction bringing up for me before the conversation. Ask what specifically am I reacting to? What is the story I'm telling about this? What does it remind me of? What part of me feels threatened or ashamed or unseen? What do I actually need? Am I attached to my story? If my story were not true, what other possibilities are there? What else could be true? So, this is the inner work, you know, through reflection, journaling, talking it through with someone else and then to even explore what could the other person's experience have been? Because the goal in this reflection is to get as close to objective reality or what could be possible as we can. Even though we can't
ever be technically objective, we hold that I had an experience, they had an experience. And if we treat our subjective experience as objective, it will sound like blame even if we don't mean to. Now my background is in mindfulness and mindfulness is the lens for me that makes all this possible. For me mindful communication is basically leading with presence, coming from a place of curiosity and care and focusing on what matters. So if I break those three parts down, presence is like I can feel it in my body. I can feel myself present, breathing, slowing down, speaking from a grounded place. Curiosity. Can I remember this is a human being, not an enemy.
This is care. And can I remember my goal is understanding. What matters is like can I get underneath the surface issue to name what's really here right now? What is actually happening? That's mindfulness. This is why we do the inner work first because the presence is what gives us the choice. If I'm not present, I'm going to react. If I am present, then I have the capacity to respond. Or J. Sofur is a mindfulness teacher. He wrote a whole book called Say What You Mean about Communication. I think it's really helpful. I'll link it below if you want to check it out. He also draws from Marshall Rosenberg's non-violent
communication framework which I'm going to walk you through right now because it is a part of the larger framework I've created and it's greatly informed how I work with communication and coaching. Um honestly probably half my coaching ultimately becomes about preparing people to have honest conversations in a way that creates connection. So for my approach, mindfulness is sort of the state, the approach and how we want to show up. Non-violent communication is part of the structure. So it's going to inform what you say when trying to speak without blame and get to what matters. The NVC framework keeps things pretty simple. It's four steps. The first is observation. Observing what happened as
objectively as possible without blame. The second step is feelings. What do you feel emotionally? We want to use emotion words here, not stories. The third step is needs. What are you needing? What are you valuing? What's the deeper thing underneath that's not being met? The fourth step is the request. What are you asking for concretely without demanding and placing blame? So, the four steps, observations, feelings, needs, requests. And I want to nod back to what I've shared in past episodes, especially the episode on boundaries from earlier this year in the science of emotions episode. Feelings are data.
They often indicate if our needs are being met or not met. Positive balanced emotions, you know, the ones that we like, joy, gratitude, love, that's the signal from our nervous system some need is being met. painful emotions, the negative, valanced, uncomfortable ones, hurt, stress, anxiety, fear, anger, these are signaling unmet needs. So instead of treating emotions like a problem, we learn to treat them as information. In the boundaries episode, I'll link that below if you didn't get to check it out. I did include a free downloadable feelings and needs list that'll probably be helpful for what I'm going to walk you through in the rest of this episode. But a key important distinction I want
to make, a need is not a strategy. A need is something like I have a need for respect, for communication, for partnership, for trust, consideration, teamwork, belonging, clarity, understanding. The strategy is how we try to meet the need. So I want you to do X. That's going to show up more in the request part of the model. And we want to speak from a place of our needs because the needs connect the feelings to the request we're going to make. The needs are like a bridge and we all have needs. If we start proposing the strategies alone and just throwing requests around, we can trigger defensiveness because then we have not emotionally connected
ourselves or the other person to why this is important or what it's bringing up for us or the other person. So let's apply this framework practically in a you know quick relatable way to get a sense of it. Let's say you feel hurt that someone has interrupted you while speaking or maybe this is something they do regularly. So the first step is observation. This is just naming what's observable without placing any blame. What's observable is sometimes I'm speaking, I'm sharing something and then I get interrupted mid-sentence. That's it. observable. The feelings are what it makes me feel. I feel when that happens frustrated and really underneath that I feel hurt
and I feel small like my voice doesn't matter. So notice how what I'm sharing are feeling words. Hurt, frustrated, um my voice not mattering is shame. This is not a big long story. It's connecting us to the emotion because that's what's going to help us resonate with another human. The third step is needs. I have a need for respect and for being heard and for space for my voice to matter and to express it. And then my request, would you be willing to let me finish my thought before responding? And if you do get too
excited, could you jot it down first so that we can come back to it? Okay, so this is simple, neutral, not blaming, and it's respectful and kind. All right, that was a highlevel sort of practical, but I want to walk you through a client scenario that can get at how to use this with situations that might be a little bit more complicated, like deeper issues. So, there's this woman that I coach. She married into a family over a decade ago. She had a child with her husband and her husband had kids from a previous marriage. And he will often make plans with his other kids for plans for the entire family to
include her and her kid with him. But he'll make those plans without consulting her. And she kept coming to our sessions expressing frustration about being notified about the plans after they were made. And since she does the House schedule, this was leading to other conflicts. Over time, it kept leading to more and more ruptures. So, it already can seem like there is a lot of complexity here to untangle, but the NVC, the non-violent communication framework can help us narrow in on what really matters here. So, one, step one, observation as objectively as possible. when plans are made with your kids that involve the whole family and I'm not included in the planning and then I find out after the
plans have been made. Okay, that's that's just naming what's observable. So notice there's no you never you always. So this is not a character attack. It is about being able to name and honor your needs to come into alignment with the other person. So after observations, the second step is the feelings. We name the emotion words. I feel frustrated. I feel angry. And [snorts] sometimes we might need to go beneath it because sometimes anger and frustration are uh what are called secondary emotions under that. I feel hurt. I feel left out. I feel anxious about the schedule. I feel sadness that I'm not considered. So beneath the anger is something deeper. Something that might be related to shame, which we recently talked
about. Ultimately, this leads to me feeling like I don't belong. I'm not included. I don't matter. I'm not considered. Third step is needs. This is really what I value and what matters to me. So, it might sound like when I slow down, I realize I have needs for consideration and respect and trust and for us to operate as a team. And I also have needs for belonging to feel a part of like belonging in that family and of awareness of the schedule so I can plan for my and our life. So do you feel the shift? We've gone from arguing about logistics to naming what's actually here. Emotion, pain around belonging, consideration, teamwork, feeling like I matter. And then we move into the request. something concrete and doable. Would you be willing to include me in the group
text with your kids for matters that include our entire family so that I'm a part of the planning and not just informed after? That's a clear request and the way you say it matters. You're not trying to win. You're trying to reconnect. So, we acknowledged previously, I'm approaching this through mindfulness. This is how you show up. The NVC framework is the content that's going to inform what you say. Observation, feeling, needs, requests. Now, I want to give you a third piece. This container that I've created that sets the conversation up for success. I use a simple checklist. If you have ever heard of the five W's in an H framework, you probably have.
It's like the who, what, where, when, why, and how. I've kind of turned that into the five W's in an H for a courageous conversation container. It is simple. It's effective. And it helps meet this experience from a place of intentionality and presence. And I've also turned it into a free downloadable worksheet you can access if this is helpful. So once you've reflected on your own reaction and you're ready to work on the conversation, fill out each of these as they relate to your conversation in the relationship. The order doesn't really matter. So let's go through it. First is who. Very simple. Who's the conversation with?
Just name, you know, the person in their relationship to you. My partner Joanna, my friend Danny, whoever it is. The what is what needs to be said. Turn it into bullet points. Keep it simple. This is the content. This is basically where I insert the NVC framework. Observation, feelings, needs, requests. The where and when. These are two simple but important questions that create and cultivate safety. Where and when can this conversation happen so that we can both be present and intentional and psychologically safe? Not in the car while we're driving. Not while we're distracted. Not like in the doorway while one of us is running out to work.
Somewhere you can breathe. And then when can it happen so that it supports success? Like not when you're hungry or exhausted or rushing or already flooded. The why. This is one of the most important questions. Why is the deeper intention behind having this conversation? Most people think the intention is like, well, this person's pissing me off and so I want to get them to change. That is not effective. You've probably tried that. This kind of conversation is not about being right. There is a saying, do you want to be right or do you want to be in relationship? If you are needing to be right, it means you have some pain and ego in the driver's seat and so you are
not coming from the perspective of being a team. This conversation method is about coming together as a team. So we want to get to the deeper intention. Why do you even want to have this conversation? Why is the discomfort of this conversation worth it to you? I want to be closer to you. I love you. I want us to reconnect. I want us to be a team. I want us to feel safe together. The one h how do I want to be during the conversation? What do I want to embody? Love, patience, curiosity, honesty, respect.
This is a self leadership piece. This is what I want to embody during the exchange. The goal is not to have a perfect conversation. There's no such thing. But it is to show up in integrity. And this way of being that you choose, for me, it helps me stay aligned with my integrity. So after these five W's in an H, I'm ready for the conversation itself. But I want to give you a couple other pointers before the conversation. One thing you might do is if you remember the blips practice, I shared it a long time ago. I think back in episode three, but it is a simple way to shift from reactivity into intentionality.
A really quick overview of the five steps. B is breathe like slow down in your body. L is let go of the agenda. Drop your agenda. Drop your need to win. I is intention. Connect to your why. What matters here? What you want out of this and how you want to be. P is pay attention. So, how are you going to stay present to your body, to yourself, to your words, to your partner? And then S is selfless. Remembering this is not just about you. You are engaging with another human, not an enemy. So, I like to use this practice 60 seconds before I do a talk. It helps me come into presence. And if you want to try it, I did a long
time ago do a dessert meditation practice. I'll link it below if you want to revisit. a few other suggestions from what I've learned about courageous conversation kind of best practices. So when you start the conversation, I always suggest leading with the why. You might say something like, "Hey, I want to talk about something. I want to do it from a grounded place and my intention is to be closer to you. I'm doing this because I care about you and I want us to be a team." All right. So now just take a second and imagine someone that you love came to you and said that. How would you want to meet them?
I'd be like, "Oh my gosh, how vulnerable and courageous like yes, thank you." And I also in that moment I like to ask them to agree to the conversation and get on board. So I might ask like is that something you want to is that a shared goal? Are you open to being present with me? in service of that intention that enrolls them. It makes it a collaboration. It makes it an us. It's not an attack. It's not me versus you. It's us. Now, I might also share some vulnerability to create some safety for me to not be perfect. I might say, "I'm a little bit nervous here to have this conversation, but it's really important to me because you're important to me,
and I am going to try to be really intentional. I might get some words wrong. I'm going to do my best. Are you willing to be present with me through that?" Do you see how that can be disarming and actually invite connection? I think this is a good example of how I can't change other people, but the way that I show up can invite other people to respond to the energy I bring. One of the biggest pieces of advice I give about conversations is speak from the eye. Speaking from my experience versus you. So when I say you, it feels like an attack. You always do this. You never do that. That's not going to create safety
for receptivity. you lands like blame but I feels like ownership of my own experience and someone can't in invalidate that. So feel the difference between you always do this and when I experience this I feel hurt. It's much less personal against the other person and it invites the other person to self-reflect and engage from a place of safety and curiosity and mutuality. Have you ever talked to someone and said like, "Well, you said this." And then they're like, "I never said that." That's because you had two different experiences of that moment. So, it changes the game when you can say, "I experienced you as saying because it holds space for the possibility that they had another
experience. Maybe I misheard you. Maybe there's something I'm missing. And if so, let's talk about it." It creates space and possibility. I also often suggest something people can feel a little bit weird about but I do it in my own conversations which is giving yourself permission to have some notes. I think sometimes people feel insecure about having notes for various reasons. Uh sometimes there's a fear of how they might be perceived or something like that. I want you to imagine okay if someone came to you and said this conversation really matters to me.
I spent a lot of time thinking about it. I wrote down some notes. I really want to stay on track so I can be intentional and productive. And so, do you mind if I have this card out with some notes on it? If someone said that to me, I would feel really cared about. I would feel like, wow, you're taking this really seriously. I want to reinforce this reframe that seems obvious, but it is a reframe when we consider how we typically hander handle conversations. We need to treat issues as team issues. If it hurts you, it hurts me. If it hurts me, it hurts you. And both of us acknowledge this because we are in a relationship. So the goal is not one person winning. The goal is can we meet
each other's needs as best we can. And again, do you want to be right or do you want to be in relationship? After you share, it's also really important to hold space and be curious about the other person's experience because they might surprise you with how they experienced it. They might say, "Oh my gosh, I didn't realize it impacted you like that." Or, "I thought I was making plans and that you'd be fine. I feel maybe they'll say, I feel overwhelmed about that, too." The goal is not to prove your experience. The goal is to get aligned, to get on the same page. So to me, this whole episode's about how to meet that moment of conversation with more mindfulness and really more love because the reason you are having this
conversation at all is you care about this person. And the conversation cannot meet that intention if we are not present and aware. So let's briefly talk about what can go sideways and how to navigate it. Conversations don't always go perfectly. They don't need to, but sometimes we do actually need to take a break. So if you get flooded in the conversation, you might say, "Oo, I'm getting activated. I want this to be helpful and it's not right now. Can we pause for 5 minutes so I can go take a breath or take a 15-minute break or set a time to come back?" If some kind of blame slips out, just repair as soon as you notice. Okay, that came out as blame. I'm sorry. That's not my intention. Let me try again.
So much of these conversations being productive is about surrendering our ego and surrendering the need to be right. Be willing to make mistakes and then just own them. It's respectable. It's connecting. If the other person gets defensive, the worst thing that you can do is meet that defensive energy. So you might reflect back with softness. Again, your energy can impact theirs. I hear this is hard to hear. I'm not saying you're bad. I'm sharing this because I want us to be closer. Let's take a breath. If it spirals, take a time out and have a plan to reconnect. I want to come back to this. Can we try again tomorrow after work or tonight at 7? I'm not able to think clearly about it right now, but I will circle back by tomorrow night with
a new time. This is important. And if you choose to come back to it in another time, choose an actual time. Set the time so that it doesn't get lost. Repair is not linear. You don't need to do it perfectly. You just need to stay oriented to the intention. And ultimately be compassionate with yourself. You know, these are practices that you are going to grow with as each of you gives them time and cultivation. Okay, that was a lot. So little recap of what we learned today. Hard conversations are hard because relationships activate our nervous systems and our old patterns. Step zero, okay, before you do anything is
self-connection. My reaction, understanding it, that's my responsibility. Transference and projection can be mirrors and helpful if we use them wisely. Mindfulness gives us space. It leads us to presence, curiosity, care, and what matters. Non-violent communication gives us some structure so that we can name observations, feelings, needs, request. And the conversation container helps us to be intentional and stay on track in a courageous conversation. If someone came to mind while listening, a partner, a sibling, a parent, a co-worker, feel free to send it to them. Sometimes having a shared framework could be the first step to repair. And before you go, I want to ask you for a small favor.
Actually, when I was creating on YouTube in my previous life, the feedback that I would get from people was immediate because I could see the views and the comments and be in conversation with people. And with a podcast, I'm noticing my like grief over not having that cuz I don't get any kind of feedback unless one of you reaches out. And I love when you when you do email me. But I want to keep creating content that resonates with you. So, I made a really short survey. It's a minute asking you to share what you want more of, what's resonating, and if this podcast has supported you, please, I'm going to ask the favor of filling it out. It's going to help me keep shaping this space for
you. The links in the show notes. I read every response, and I'm so grateful for you taking the time. And I'm also grateful for you following, subscribing, leaving a little five-star rating and review. We really appreciate you helping us reach more people. Okay, so go take a breath. Until next time, be present, be embodied, and relish your beautiful life.
